Crosman RMCOIL?



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Offline mtbdrew

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Crosman RMCOIL?
« on: June 19, 2012, 12:39:37 PM »
Do you use this in your break barrel gas rams or another product?

Andrew
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Offline Nate the airgunner

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 02:19:26 PM »
Do not use RMCOIL or any other lube in gas rams or springers, it will detonate, causing damage to your piston seal.
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Offline thekid

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 03:22:44 PM »
Do not use RMCOIL or any other lube in gas rams or springers, it will detonate, causing damage to your piston seal.


X2..
A proper tune will alleviate the need to lube.

Offline mtbdrew

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 03:50:54 PM »
Guys this stuff is supposed to be 100% silicone based designed specifically for springer air rifles. They have changed the name to Silicone Chamber Oil:

http://www.crosman.com/gear/care/RMCOIL

The manual for the Titan states that you have to use it in order to maintain optimum operating power. So are you telling me that Crosman is recommending a product that is dangerous when used as they recommend?

Added from Crosman manual:

"7. Maintaining Your Airgun
• Periodically tighten all stock fasteners
• Check and tighten scope mounts if applicable
• To ensure that your air rifle maintains uniform power, it is important that
you apply a drop of Crosman RMCOIL every few hundred shots into the
compression chamber. (Fig. 8) The external metal parts should be cleaned
with a cloth that has RMCOIL on it."

Andrew
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 04:08:51 PM by mtbdrew »
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Offline thekid

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 04:18:19 PM »
Guys this stuff is supposed to be 100% silicone based designed specifically for springer air rifles. They have changed the name to Silicone Chamber Oil:

http://www.crosman.com/gear/care/RMCOIL

The manual for the Titan states that you have to use it in order to maintain optimum operating power. So are you telling me that Crosman is recommending a product that is dangerous when used as they recommend?

Added from Crosman manual:

"7. Maintaining Your Airgun
• Periodically tighten all stock fasteners
• Check and tighten scope mounts if applicable
• To ensure that your air rifle maintains uniform power, it is important that
you apply a drop of Crosman RMCOIL every few hundred shots into the
compression chamber. (Fig. 8) The external metal parts should be cleaned
with a cloth that has RMCOIL on it."

Andrew

It still detonates.
The silicone lube, is suppose to provide a sealing edge, on the piston seal inside the compression chamber.
What it does not say... Is when you use it, it will detonate, with a big cloud of white smoke and push pellets super sonic.
I have tried it many times, it will detonate twice, before settling down.
The residual lube will keep dieselling until completely burned off.
Works well on the outside of the rifle.

If you were to ask Charlie Da Tuna, the best place for that stuff...he would most likely say in the garbage.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 04:21:19 PM by thekid »

Offline mtbdrew

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 04:31:02 PM »
Wonder if that has something to do with why it is out of stock on their website? Maybe that have gotten some feedback regarding the detonating issue?

Searching the web shows that RWS has a similar product, wonder if it has the same problem.

Thanks
Andrew
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Offline gene_sc

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 04:31:22 PM »
Remoil and silicone oil only for outside of springers and air guns. Jeeezzzzzz.... when you guys gonna learn... :)

Gene
From Charlie Da Tuna's Web Site. "Do's and Dont's".

Don’t oil your gun.

Don’t use or introduce any lubes into your compression chamber through the port or into the barrel. Also, do not use or introduce oils on the spring or into the cocking slot of the action. This lube migrates to the cylinder walls and weeps its way into the compression chamber.
 
The reason for this is that it causes detonation that damages the seal as well as causes the spring to fatigue and collapse and can actually cause the spring to fracture. It greatly increases the double recoil shock and that can damage your scope. It also causes your gun to have erratic velocity that seriously impacts the accuracy.

If properly tuned using the proper lubes, your gun can go for years without needing to be lubed internally although external linkage lubing and maintenance will need to be ongoing. 
 
 Charlie

 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 04:38:15 PM by gene_sc »
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Offline mtbdrew

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012, 05:02:50 PM »
Gene,

I read the manual last night for a new gun and it mentioned RMCOIL which I had never heard of and that is why I'm asking before I bought the stuff.  Charlie states "If properly tuned using the proper lubes" so this brings me back to the other part of my original question, what are the alternatives for lubing the chamber seal on a gas ram gun?
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Offline thekid

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Offline mtbdrew

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Offline thekid

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2012, 05:22:18 PM »
No Problem.
The Library has a wealth of knowledge. Everything you need is in there.

Offline mtbdrew

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2012, 08:58:06 AM »
Sent Crosman an email looking for an official response on their RMCOIL and Springer air rifles. This is what I got back:

"Dear Andrew Sellers,

Thank you for contacting Crosman Corporation.
I believe the Detonation you are talking about is called Dieseling. This is standard in all Break barrel guns when you Oil the guns. You will also get Dieseling from Break Barrel guns when you first buy them. What you are hearing and seeing is spreading the oil in the gun and also getting rid of all extra oil that your gun does not need.
This does not damage your gun.

Thanks,
Kim Yaddow"


Doesn't damage your gun, find that hard to believe!
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Offline gene_sc

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2012, 09:41:19 PM »
Putting any oil based petrolium in front of piston on a break barrel will damage seal and or spring. She is merely saying that normal lube from factory does and will migrate throughout the gun initially. Even freshly tune break barrels will diesel until the excess lube is gone.

A bit of history for you.

When all the manufacturers used to use leather seals they would tell you to put one or two drops of oil in the chamber every 1000 rounds or so, to help keep leather supple. Today all manufactured break barrels use nylon seals. Lube from factory assymbly is all that is needed until you have gun tuned and then you want to replace nylon seal with poly seal and cross hatch chamber.

Gene
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 09:42:57 PM by gene_sc »
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Offline CharlieDaTuna

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2012, 11:59:49 PM »
Hey... don't argue with him.. ::) ::)

This has been common knowledge for years within the realm of springer airguns. There is a big difference between dieseling and detonation and detonation caused by using any oil or getting any lubricant into the compression chamber and is extremely hard on the guns spring and seal as well as the scope.  :'( :'(

But let him go ahead and do as he pleases and suffer the consequences and pay the price.  He will then learn just as many others in the past have. I just don't have a lot of patience with people that want to argue the logic of years of experience and thousands of airgun enthusiasts and tuning professionals.  >:( >:(

And there is no lube that you can stuff into the gun to lube the seal properly... period...  :o  If the seal needs to be lubed then the gun should be torn down and properly tuned and lubed.  ;)  And another thing. Silicone, used for anything other than seating and assembly for the seal, is one of the worse things you can use to lube the seal.

Guess I said more than enough.

CDT

« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 09:54:56 AM by CharlieDaTuna »
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Offline mtbdrew

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2012, 10:21:10 AM »
Hey... don't argue with him.. ::) ::)

This has been common knowledge for years within the realm of springer airguns. There is a big difference between dieseling and detonation and detonation caused by using any oil or getting any lubricant into the compression chamber and is extremely hard on the guns spring and seal as well as the scope.  :'( :'(

But let him go ahead and do as he pleases and suffer the consequences and pay the price.  He will then learn just as many others in the past have. I just don't have a lot of patience with people that want to argue the logic of years of experience and thousands of airgun enthusiasts and tuning professionals.  >:( >:(

And there is no lube that you can stuff into the gun to lube the seal properly... period...  :o  If the seal needs to be lubed then the gun should be torn down and properly tuned and lubed.  ;)  And another thing. Silicone, used for anything other than seating and assembly for the seal, is one of the worse things you can use to lube the seal.

Guess I said more than enough.

CDT

Wow Charlie who messed in your cereal? And who is the he you are talking about? If it is me, let me correct your miss-conception as I never said I was putting anything into anywhere. This post was created by me to address a question I had regarding the information Crosman has in their manual regarding care of their gun. I had never heard of the product RMCOIL so thought I would ask about it on the forum to get some real world experience before ordering it. After getting the general feedback I had no intention of ordering the stuff but thought I would follow up with Crosman to see if they had heard about the issues with their suggested product. I shared the response not to counter what others had told me but to let anyone else who might have read their owners manual understand that even Crosman's product support personnel can give bad advice.
Maybe I'm wrong but I was under the impression that this forum was a place for people to share information and experiences, to help others not make mistakes by learning from their own. I fail to see how your condescending self righteous attitude helps anyone. Yes you might have years of experience under your belt but that does not make you infallible nor does that give you the right to be a pompous know-it-all. 

Andrew 


edited for language
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 03:40:10 AM by jonnnyboy »
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Offline CharlieDaTuna

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2012, 02:35:34 PM »
Maybe I should explain myself.

If you would have taken a few minutes to do a search on the forum you would have found the answer on you own.

My point was that your question was responded to and answered several times over with the same basic response and reasoning why but you appear to keep pressing or questioning the issue.

 And they are the same responses and reasoning that has been stated many hundreds of times over throughout the years not just our forum but on just about any other airgun forum. 

Everybody that buys just about any springer or gas ram has the same info regarding chamber lube in their owners manual. ... But that's just another form of marketing and selling a high profit margin product. Ten or fifteen cents worth of material for several dollars. And as almost everybody knows that those marketing it will tell you the same thing regardless of who it is.

Our forum is exactly what you said... "that this forum was a place for people to share information and experiences, to help others not make mistakes by learning from their own."

You say.."I fail to see how your condescending self righteous attitude helps anyone."  That's your opinion and it's not meant to be condescending or self-righteous at all. It's just a matter of people and not only myself but other knowledgeable people and pro-tuners having to constantly repeat themselves.

And finally.... you say.. "Yes you might have years of experience under your belt but that does not make you infallible nor does that give you the right to be a pompous know-it-all."

I've never claimed to be infallible or to be a know-it-all. But I will say this. When you have worked on and have as much experience on these guns as I have for as many years as I have and have worked on as many thousands of them as I have, then you  can claim to know a lot and have acquired a tremendous amount of knowledge .... and I share all of that knowledge with everyone. That knowledge and information that has been passed on has been of help to not just members of our forum but to thousands of airgun enthusiasts world wide. I have dedicated and given a good part of the last 10-12 years of my life to the airgun community and have asked for nothing in return. The thanks that I receive is more than enough for me.

CDT


   
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Offline Bullit

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2012, 03:21:39 PM »
Whether you use a spring, or gas piston, they are only the "pusher".   The compression piston has a seal on it that's made of synthetic material (ie: urethane).  They don't need any external lubing.   That's their beauty.
Adding any of that stuff is like injecting fuel into your car's compression chamber...it's gonna ignite.  I'm sure you can vision the burning of your piston seal.
Bob and Gene are not only the hosts, here,   but the source of much of the wisdom that we all have learned from.  They are very much in touch with the airgunning world.   I am sure that if something comes out that changes convention, or adds to our enjoyment of airgunning....they'll gladly post for all to see.

Offline RobinMasters

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2013, 11:46:10 PM »
Hello Chaps,

I use RMCOIL, and I'm not the least bit worried about dieseling.  You want to know why, because I can change a seal and a spring in about 25 minutes time, as can most any able fingered person with a screwdriver.

Andrew did nothing wrong by asking about RMCOIL, and he even did his research by asking Crosman directly.  I know there are a few old timers on this site that know a lot about this or that, but holy moly, give it a rest and stop getting so emotional over a 3 dollar seal and a 10 dollar spring (and the spring isn't going to break, that's a load of crapola).

Guys, change your seal when it burns out, and stop treating it like it's something other than a little piece of plastic.



edited for language

« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 03:35:37 AM by jonnnyboy »
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Offline Paul68

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2013, 12:46:43 PM »
This thread is over a year old, and why you've chosen to ressurect it and address the posters as if they were still concerned with it will probably have to be chalked up to your newness to the forum. It was resolved and laid to rest. That said.

Along with promoting safety and remaining within the law, we also prefer to support the best practices that have been proven to provide the best performance and care of air rifles. When you begin considering that once you get past the Wal Mart budget rifles, we are talking about serious shooting tools that run in excess of $300 to $1,000 dollars, the idea that "just do whatever and if it breaks fix it" makes pretty much no sense at all.

I'll also add that these "old timers" here are not imparting curmudgeonly advice built on outdated or stubborn beliefs. What they tell you is gained from years of experience professionally tuning and modifying rifles, and they are trying to help those who place value and appreciation on their rifles obtain the best performance and longevity possible from them with a minimum of trouble or hassle. You ignore them at your own risk.

Not everyone is adept at repairing rifles, and even fewer are interested in breaking them down. It takes far more than just "15 minutes" to properly change a seal and spring, and the ability to do so can be beyond the capabilities of many shooters.

A properly lubricated rifle maintained according to the procedures and methods provided by the past and present pros and old hands on this site can operate for years before requiring repair or freshening up. THAT alone should provide all the impetous needed to do the job right and avoid any erroneous suggestions to ignore the pro's and damage your rifle. Broken springs and burned seals happening often is a sign of one thing, you are doing something wrong with your rifle.

Finally, as you are new to GTA, I'll ask that you take some time to learn the forum and maintain a respectful approach with the staff and other posters.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 12:49:36 PM by Paul68 »
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Offline RobinMasters

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Re: Crosman RMCOIL?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2013, 09:25:15 PM »
Paul,

I chose to respond because as some of your overly eager posters suggest - one must search older posts before re-posting a question that is in the archives, so the archives are still relevant.  Please get used to the fact that people reference your older posts. 

Second, RMCOIL, seals, springs, effort, and the cost of a rifle being 300 to 1000 dollars are all irrelevant to the fact that an air rifle is a simple machine with less than 30 parts.  Similar to a bicycle.  Stirring up fear by false mention that silicone oil with a suitable flash point for rifles is going to cause the type of damage that one might see in a real mistreated rifle (not these expensive airgun toys) may be your life's purpose, but please understand your emotional responses are just your hobby.

Third, I'd put Crosman and RWS engineers up against your old-timers any day in understanding flash points and a material's suitability in a rifle.

Thanks chap!

Robin
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