hammerli pnuema
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Topic: hammerli pnuema (Read 8483 times))
pindog2000
dark room.
Expert
Posts: 1257
hammerli pnuema
«
on:
October 06, 2010, 12:18:30 AM »
Anyone try the pnuemas out?I heard there loud and only pushing 30fpe?but cheap at 345 bucks.
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longislandhunter
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 16547
The 3rd GTA Musketeer (per Gene Curtis)
Real Name: Jeff
Re: hammerli pnuema
«
Reply #1 on:
October 06, 2010, 10:38:43 AM »
I spent some time shooting one at the "American Airgunner" shoot I attended a while back. I did like the stock, I found it very comfortable and it shouldered nicely but I did find it to be rather loud, at least the one I shot. I don't know what kind of #'s it was pushing but I was hitting the target with regularity. I seem to remember one of the GTA members bought one, I think it was last year and he did was having a problem with air leaks. You might have to look in the old posts but he did a comprehensive review of the rifle and his attempts to correct the air leak issues. Hope this helps ya
Jeff
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Long Island, New York
If it was easy it wouldn't be hunting it would be shopping.
JonnyReb
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 3759
Where is John Galt?
Re: hammerli pnuema
«
Reply #2 on:
October 06, 2010, 11:37:23 AM »
I bought one from AOA and it never came in so i got my money back. While i waited i researched them as best i could. They are made by Hatsan in turkey and have been sold in parts of europe for several years. They are of a good design in most cases, with the exception of seal issues, an almost impossible to adjust trigger and i've heard that they come with sand mixed into the internal grease. lol, facilitating a good cleaning before shooting it for the first time. Very accurate and quite powerful, 30-33 ftlbs i think.
I found a thread from a guy who lives in the town(in turkey) they are made in, he said that there have been 3 batches of the rifles into the U.S., with improvements upon every shipment. He was quite proud of the guns and said that they were excellent. I guess it may depend on your previous experience but i do think they are unique guns at an excellent price. Compared to a marauder thou, i don't think it would be a difficult choice. Just the silent shots alone would be worth the extra $75.00 imo. J
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north caroline
trekkerx
Plinker
Posts: 227
Re: hammerli pnuema
«
Reply #3 on:
October 06, 2010, 11:11:06 PM »
I just bought a Air Venturi Halestorm .22 Cal. which is the same rifle only the Halestorm is a 10 shot repeater side lever. I really like the rifle it is accurate 35-60 yards dime size groups.60 yards is the farthest shot i made on a nutter. Knocked his eye`s right out of his little ol`head with a 18.1 gr.JSB Jumbo pellet.The trigger is tight but concentrate on your target while squeezing the trigger.If you could adjust down to a lighter pull it would be a top shooter to buy but it is what it is & i like it.Ohh & it is loud ,loudest AG i have or even heard next to a 12 inch barrel .25 cal, 5 shot max pistol. If noise is a issue then don`t buy this one.
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pindog2000
dark room.
Expert
Posts: 1257
Re: hammerli pnuema
«
Reply #4 on:
October 06, 2010, 11:25:41 PM »
that ive heard very very loud but the stock is sweet.
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daved
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Re: hammerli pnuema
«
Reply #5 on:
October 07, 2010, 10:15:21 AM »
I'm the guy that had one last year, and had issues. The lubricant description of half sand and half nasty smelling grease was also mine :-). Mine was a .177, so I was "only" getting around 24 fpe out of it, with ~ 10 gr. pellets. Tried the EJ's, but not as good as Kodiaks or CPH's. Also didn't produce the power I was expecting.
I had some issues with air leaks, but from the lack of others with the same complaint, I'd have to say it was an issue with just my gun. It leaked at the valve, and I never did get it fixed before I sold the rifle. And in case anyone is wondering, I made no secret of the air leak when I sold the rifle.
The stock trigger is &^^&, pure and simple. And despite advertising to the contrary, it's NOT a 2 stage trigger. That said, you can make a nice single stage trigger out of it, you just have to remove about half the parts :-). Also, the design is such that the safety mechanism introduces drag into the trigger system, so I eliminated the safety on mine. I'm NOT recommending anyone do that, I'm just saying that that's what I did. But after removing the safety, a spring, and eliminating the fake first stage, I ended up with a pretty decent trigger, fairly crisp and it broke around 1.5 lbs.
I didn't like the synthetic stock at all. The thumbhole design doesn't work well for me with the way I grip a rifle, and the material it was made of is hard and slick, I kept felling like I was going to drop the thing. I was able to trade mine on for a Halestorm stock, much nicer unit. Also, I had inconsistent accuracy with the synthetic stock, once I dropped the action into the wood stock, it became a tack driver. Go figure.
Yes, it's loud, but the barrel is threaded for accessories. There's also enough room between the barrel and air tube that you could probably shroud it, if I'd had my lathe when I had the Pneuma, that's what I would have done. Before tearing mine down, it was very stiff and gritty, and the shot count was pretty low. After doing the work on it, it was a very slick shooter, and the shot count went up considerably after removing a 1/8" spacer from the hammer, with no loss of power.
With the wood stock, it's a pretty decent rifle, especially if Hatsan has been making the kind of improvements in their PCP's that they've been making in the springers. But even at $350 (they were $500 when I got mine), I still don't consider them a great deal, especially when used Marauders are selling for the same price. I paid $400 when I got mine 2nd hand, and I think I ended up selling it for less than $300, and threw in some extra goodies to boot. So lousy resale is something to keep in mind. The Hatsan name is getting better, but there's still a lot of negative feelings about it. I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a later model one, just to see if there have been improvements, but I'm not curious enough to drop $350 on it. Now, if someone wanted to buy one and send it to me to over haul, that could be fun :-). Later.
Dave
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Andr
Guest
Re: hammerli pnuema
«
Reply #6 on:
October 17, 2010, 06:35:01 PM »
This summer I bought
Hatsan AT-44 10S
(W), a 4,5mm 10 shot turkish PCP gun with walnut stock.
In general, it turned out to be a good gun, especially if you keep in mind the price/quality relationship. What I liked the most was that the main specifications of this gun were exactly like the manufacturer advertised – 320m/s with light (0,5g pellet) and 50 full power shots from 195 to 100 bar. By the way compared to my other airguns, this was the second one that met the manufacturer’s specifications right out of the box. Fox example Weihrauch HW77k was advertised as 290m/s, really it was 260m/s with 0,51g pellet.
Not only the power of AT44 was good but the plateau was in place, the rifling and crown of the barrel were acceptable and the iron sight (actually plastic but a good one) was factory adjusted on target. The overall finish of metal and wooden parts was not exceptional but quite acceptable. The gun performed 15mm ctc10-shot group in ideal conditions at 25m if the shooter was capable.
But there was a catch – the awful trigger. The trigger blade looked golden and decorative but the performance of the mechanism was the worst I had ever experienced on a PCP gun. If compared to say the same HW77 trigger, the springer's trigger outperformed the AT44 trigger by far. AT44’s trigger was hard but not constantly, sometimes hard, sometimes not so, sometimes so hard that you started to think that you forgot safety on a wrong position. And the hard trigger was combined by a creep, an unconstant creep. Very seldom it was no creep, usually creep-creep, sometimes creep-creep-creep. All this made the shooting of this gun a headache, sometimes the trigger was so hard, that you had to fire a shot into air, reload and hope that this time the trigger performed better.
I am not a tinkering type, I only repair something when that is inevitable, but something had to be done with this trigger. Looking for information in internet was not very productive, you could find out that the trigger problem of AT44 was quite usual and it could be overcome with not so much trouble, even some pictures were available plus couple of videos in an unknown language (turkish? romanian?). But I was not able to find any explanation how the trigger mechanism worked, not instructions how to disassemble it and what exactly to do. So I had to figure it out all by myself and here are the results. I use here my own arbitrary numbering system, in the end there are the part numbers by Hatsan.
Trigger dynamics
1. When cocked, hammer passes partially sear 1, pushes it upward and locks behind its front concave,
2. pressing trigger blade, its back (E) presses on sear 3 (at A) and the last one presses on sear 2 (at B) ,
3. this forces working surface (C) of sear 2 to slide downwards on working surface (D) of sear 1 and release it,
4. the front concave of sear 1 turns downwards forced by spring (6) and releases the hammer.
Spring 5 is needed to return sear 2 to its initial position to make it lock at sear 1 on cocking.
Spring 8 returns the trigger blade.
These 2 springs plus sear pull down spring 6 are essential for trigger mechanism to function.
To make trigger lighter springs 5 and 8 could be changed by softer ones, e.g. a ballpoint pen spring cut in half would do.
All trigger pull adjustment details (11-15) are only meant to make the releasing of a shot harder and could all be discarded.
The safety detail 1 blocks upward movement of sear 3 and so makes the release of the hammer impossible. When the safety is on "FIRE" this detail does not interfere the action of trigger mechanism in any way. Keep the safety mechanism intact!
Removal of the trigger mechanism:
1. Just push out pins marked with red arrows. This need not much force, these pins are embedded in plastic body.
Warning. After you have removed the trigger mechanism from its plastic bed, be careful with safety SAFE/FIRE switch (S). It moves between two positions quite loosely, locked onto these positions with the help of a spring and a plastic ball. Pulling it carelessly, you could pull it out and loose the ball and spring. To put these details back is very tricky without complete disassembly of the gun.
2. Push out pins in trigger case. First push out pins holding springs at place, do not lose the springs. Most of these pins have grooves in one end, push the grooved end out.
To make the trigger smoother, working surfaces (C) and (D) of sear 2 and 1 should be polished as well as inner surface of trigger case should be cleaned of casting defects and the trigger pull adjustment screw (11), spring and other accompanying details should be removed. Changing springs controlling trigger blade and sear 2 movement with lighter/softer ones would make trigger lighter too. So really this trigger is a one stage trigger, the first stage is mimicked by trigger blade spring and there is no possibility to regulate the sliding distance of surfaces (C) and (D). The last is normally used for trigger pull adjustment - longer distance more pull, shorter distance less pull. Pull adjustment by restricting trigger details movement by increasing spring tension is plainly stupid to say the least.
It is very difficult to totally remove the creep of a trigger of this construction. The critical parts move tightly between walls of trigger case and their sharp edges (e.g. edges and corners of working surfaces of sear 2 and 1) tend to scratch on these walls. Very careful polishing of these edges could cure the situation a bit. Moving surfaces of trigger mechanism should be lubricated quite sufficiently with some molybden containing grease.
I cannot advice to do this, but I like very light trigger, so I added 0,15mm thick bronze sheet between sears 3 and 2 (at location B) as increasing this distance makes sliding distance of surfaces (C) and (D) shorter. The sheet was fixed using the same trigger pull adjustment screw, but it was screwed in sear 3 from other side. Resulting trigger pull was about 50g and no creep at all.
Happy tinkering
A.M.
17.10.2010
Hatsan AT44-10 series (10-shot models) Exploded View (revision:June2009)
102 - sear spring (5)*
103 - sear 1 (2)
104 - sear 2 (3)
105 - sear 3 (4)
106 - sear 3 spring (6)
107 - trigger case (10)
108 - trigger connection pin
109 - trigger travel spring (8)
110 – trigger (9)
113 - trigger pull adjustment screw (11)
111 - trigger travel screw (7)
112 - trigger pin
114 - trigger pull adjustment bush (12)
115 - trigger pull adjustment locking spring (13)
116 - spring cleat (14)
117 - trigger pull adjustment spring (15)
411 - safety sheetmetal (1)
* - in parenthesis are arbitrary numbers I used in this paper
«
Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 06:47:17 PM by Andr
»
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JonnyReb
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 3759
Where is John Galt?
Re: hammerli pnuema
«
Reply #7 on:
October 17, 2010, 07:45:11 PM »
Awesome tutorial Andr!
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north caroline
Filnez
Plinker
Posts: 195
Real Name: Phil Nesmith
Re: hammerli pnuema
«
Reply #8 on:
October 17, 2010, 07:58:50 PM »
I have thought seriously about trying to get one of the walnut stocked Halestorms before they are sold out. Good shot count, excellent accuracy, ten shot repeater, and fairly lightweight. Pyramyd Air has them marked down to $400 and you can use a ten percent coupon code to reduce it to $360.
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Hanceville AL
pindog2000
dark room.
Expert
Posts: 1257
Re: hammerli pnuema
«
Reply #9 on:
October 17, 2010, 09:24:50 PM »
At youtube.com if you go to airgunwebs they have a video review on the halestorms
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hammerli pnuema