Diana Model 27

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HCAirgunner

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Diana Model 27
« on: December 19, 2011, 08:52:44 PM »
I have a chance to get an RWS Diana Model 27 rifle for $50.00. The guy says it's OLD, but still shoots. He says it might be as old as the 1920's.

The rifle is missing the rear sights (there is a place that looks like it is designed to hold the sights, but it's empty. It sits right where the barrel breaks.)

The stock is pretty beat up, but if it's an antique, I'm not really that concerned about the stock. That's what sandpaper and stain were invented for.

My question is, can you still get parts for this gun? If the gun still basically shoots, and just needs a rear sight, and maybe a tune, what price range are we looking at for the mods? (i.e., how much more will I need to spend on this gun?)

Also, if it still has the original spring, should I replace it? It seems like a spring that could potentially be 80-90 years old would be weak / ready for replacement.

If I replaced the spring, are there modern springs that would fit it that would increase its fps? Or should I attempt to buy a spring with the same specs?

Does Umarex still stock and sell parts for these guns? If not, who, if anyone, does?

Or is it just a wild goose chase?

PLEASE HELP!!! THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!!!

Chris

Offline lizzie

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2011, 09:32:22 PM »
There's a supplier in the UK (Chambers) that still carries lots of parts for old guns- that's where I would check first. Here's a blog I came across that you might get some information from about the Diana 27 in specific:
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/12/diana-27-part-1.html
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Offline amb5500c

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2011, 09:40:19 PM »
I reckon I'd buy first and ask questions later.
Richard
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Offline lizzie

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2011, 09:44:17 PM »
I reckon I'd buy first and ask questions later.
Richard

LOL- that's what I'm thinking. :D
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"Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running." -anonymous

Offline daveshoot

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2011, 10:40:51 PM »
You should buy this immediately. You can sell it to me for $60 and shipping if it doesn't work out.
Owner/operator of several air guns.

Offline RedFeather

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2011, 12:12:36 AM »
Give us a description.  There are both pre-WWII and post-war 27's.  Some of the second run look like they are older but they are from the 1950's.  Both are good, collectible (and serviceable) guns.  Even the older can be made usable with other springs, homemade leather seals and you can always modify front and rear sights to fit.

HCAirgunner

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2011, 02:01:17 PM »
Ok, from other forums, I have learned the following:

Mine is a mid-1930's Nazi-era gun.

It is marked "D.R.P.a." which I believe means "Deutsches Reichspatent" ("D.R.P.") and the "a" means "angemeldet", thus making it the equivalent of "Patent Pending." That means that this is one of the first DRP's that was made.

Here are the pictures of it:







The rear sight is missing, but there is a metal "shoe" where a replacement could be dropped in. If I can find one.

















I have also been advised (both in other forums, and by a friend who collects Dianas) that modding it would decrease its value. My friend told me to just polish the stock with some Pledge, use a little oil and a 0000 steel wool to gently rub off the rust, and find a rear sight for it. Then he said, "Chrono it, and if it shoots anywhere above mid-500's, LEAVE IT ALONE." Ha ha. So that's what I am goin' to do :)

If it looks like it's shooting weak, I might find another factory spring for it.

I sure am glad that I asked around before doing anything to it :P


Offline lizzie

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 02:33:12 PM »
I would buy it and leave it alone, but then I have a tendency to collect old things, lol.
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"Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running." -anonymous

Offline daveshoot

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2011, 04:21:10 PM »
That was an awesome buy. Check out Chambers in the UK for parts, if you don't find a rear sight locally. Very nice acquisition!
Owner/operator of several air guns.

Offline amb5500c

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2011, 11:20:09 PM »
I would at the very least fix it up to get it in good working order. If it's not. What's the fun in owning a gun that you can't shoot?
Richard
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Offline RedFeather

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2011, 12:17:07 AM »
If it is weak, add a few drops of pure silicone oil in through the transfer port and stand it butt down for a couple of days.  The leather seal is probably dried and it will take a bit to rejuvenate it.  This won't restore it but should bring the power up.  Very common with leather sealed guns.  Your rear sight is missing the sliding leaf.  I don't know if they are like Mauser sights where you lift them slightly and push the front down against a spring to remove it, but, if so, a similar leaf might work.  At any rate, it being dovetailed, you can always put in another rear sight so long as you don't spring the dovetail with one that's too wide.  Might have to file the sight base a bit but it should be doable and ought not to affect the value.  Just be sure to put the original base somewhere safe.  That's a nice gun, too.  It should be shot.

HCAirgunner

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2011, 12:18:00 AM »
I agree, if it shoots weak, I will get a new spring for it, but it will be an RWS factory spring, for the model 27. I won't be putting any special springs, kits, or anything like that into it.

I want to be able to shoot it, but I also want it to retain its value as a historic antique.

I won't be re-blueing it, nor will I be sanding / re-staining the stock as I originally considered doing. But I will clean the gun, and get it as shiny as I can :)

HCAirgunner

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2011, 12:25:37 AM »
Redfeather, I will try that. I am willing to try anything that isn't too invasive or drastic. I believe that even antiques should be used for their intended purpose; I have a 1927 Underwood typewriter that I use occasionally to write special letters (usually love letters to my wife, or sometimes I write out special "meal blessings" for Thanksgiving and Christmas.)

The only thing about being an antique is that the object requires more maintenance and a gentler touch.

Originally, I thought about modding the gun only because I was unaware that the gun was so collectible; my uncle has a real Kentucky long rifle. That's always been my idea of a rare or collectible gun. I didn't know (before asking around) that a gun from as recently as the 1930's would be considered collectible. But now that I know, I have changed my approach from drastic modding to subtle restoration.

Offline Calmark

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2011, 01:07:30 AM »
Congrats on that very nice find.  Its good to know that 27 will be owned by somebody who knows what he has and plans to keep it nice and shoot it.  Keep working on it a little at a time and before you know it, you'll have a real prize you'll be proud to own.  Let us know how things work out with it. 
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HCAirgunner

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2011, 03:17:55 PM »
What I want to know is: If all of these old guns from the 60's and before are so collectible, why do I keep seeing them for only $150-$200 in mint condition. and all the new guns, with synthetic stocks and plastic triggers start at $250 for a "good" one?

Offline lizzie

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2011, 04:13:02 PM »
What I want to know is: If all of these old guns from the 60's and before are so collectible, why do I keep seeing them for only $150-$200 in mint condition. and all the new guns, with synthetic stocks and plastic triggers start at $250 for a "good" one?


Imo, because there aren't that many people who really appreciate the old guns and their workmanship. My experience is that they are much more pleasurable to shoot.  I'd rather have  1 old fine air rifle than 20 new ones.
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"Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running." -anonymous

Offline Mark 611

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2011, 04:16:11 PM »
IMO, all airguns have their pro's and con's and no matter how old or new and airgun is it's only worth what someone will give you for it! and their only Worth so much no matter rare or new it is! I used to collect airguns like allot of us do here but IMO and I have been told this by many in the airgun world that airguns are a bad investment and I have found this out to be very true! Unless you plan to keep them! Then is become's beauty in the eye of the beholder and what it's worth to you?  :P
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 04:17:47 PM by Mark 611 »
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Offline lizzie

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2011, 04:22:11 PM »
That's very true Mark. I would probably pay more for an older gun that didn't necessarily have a great value than most people would, but it's because I personally value them. It's not just guns with me- I collect other old things too, lol.
  • Texas
"Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running." -anonymous

Offline RedFeather

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2011, 07:13:20 PM »
Ask on the Vintage forum what spring might work best should you feel you need to change it.  I doubt Diana still stocks one for that gun, LOL!  Otto, who put the springs away, died in '64, so to speak.  But they will know.  Do try the silicone oil.  Works small wonders and, Lord knows, it probably hasn't seen any in donkey's years.  Don't expect more than maybe R7 power from it, at best.  These were pre-magnum and quite a bit pre-magnum at that.  Still, they can get the job done.  Just got to get a bit closer.  Keep us posted!

HCAirgunner

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Re: Diana Model 27
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2011, 06:12:31 PM »
Well, I got a rear sight for it, but it doesn't fit all the way, it's going to need a bit of light filing to get the piece to fit properly.

So, I can't shoot for targets / grouping yet.

But, I did chrono it at my friend's house the other day, and it averaged 620 fps with 8.2 grain Meisterkugeln pellets! That's great for an antique springer, with a 76-year-old spring!

I put ONE (and only one! And I will never shoot them through it again! ha ha!) Crosman SSP 4.0 grain pellet through it, just to see... it clocked at 905 fps!

As I said, I only did one, as a test :) No more SSPs, I promise :) LOL :)

Now to give it a proper cleaning! :)

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