What the heck is going on with my accuracy? PLEASE HELP!

[atoms]

I have a Titan GP .22. I have put at least 150 pellets through it, so break in is well underway. I have the stock CP 4x scope and I just installed the GRT III trigger.

Here's my accuracy @ 25 yards:



Some of the shots are also completely off the paper on the high side.

This gun is absolutely worthless to me in this condition. I cannot possibly be a respectful and responsible hunter with a rifle that shoots those kinda groups. I am almost guaranteed to have injured animals run off.

Now I have been shooting for 2 decades and this is just flat out unacceptable. The Storm XT I returned acted just like this, and that's why I returned it. I am REALLY confident that it's not my ability to hold on target and squeeze the trigger. In fact, my shots have been rested on a deck railing. What could be the issue? The scope? Just a crummy rifle?

Please help!


Thanks!

[Rico14]

Part of your problem could be the deck railing. Is the AG resting on the railing or do you have a bag between the gun and railing? Some springers don't shoot well when rested on a hard surface. The hard surface will make the gun jump. Try placing your hand on the railing, then placing the gun in your hand. Try using the artillery hold also.

[atoms]

Great advice. I'll try it. I am assuming that means the gun is bouncing enough to throw off accuracy before the pellet has left the barrel.

[rsterne]

Correct.... Springers do a lot of rockin' and rollin' around before the pellet leaves the building.... Rest your hand on the railing where you would normally cradle the forestock.... Barely wrap your fingers around the stock and try a loose grip with the trigger hand as well.... and don't pull it too tight to the shoulder.... Just allow the gun to do its thing and hopefully it will do it consistently....

Bob

[Jay]

Yep thats what he is saying atom, the dwell time in a AG is soooo long that the gun is jumping around before it ever releases the pellet, I use a tiny bit of finger pressure, not much, just laying my fingers along side on stock really to help control a bit of the side torque(works for me), but the way your group is strung high/low with just a bit of side stringing it might help you also.

[Jay]

LOL, Thanks Bob, you type faster than me.

[bradyman1]

My Titan likes to be held firm but not tight to the shoulder, the trigger hand has a reasonable grip, again not tight, and the forearm is rested on my hand with a light grip. My Titan HATES Crosman Premier Hollow Points. I get accuracy like you are showing. My Titan LOVES RWS Superdomes and H-Points. Try different holds and I think most importantly different pellets. Don't forget to loctite the barrel pivot screw. Did you put the stop pin in the scope rings clean the rail well and loctite them? That is a very important step to continued accuracy. The Titan has enough recoil that the scope will walk if not tightened securely.

[nomadlives]

Atom, I also have a titan gp 22. I had no luck with the stock scope. Replaced it with a cheap simmons 4x32 blazer a GRT3 and I am now driving tacks at 20yrds with CPs on a rest. Also, shot quite a few more pellets through mine before it broke in - way more than 150.

Mine seems to like a more traditional rifle hold. Not too tight, but certainly not artillery hold.

Best of luck.

[atoms]

Thanks for all the great advice guys! I had no idea these guns were so temperamental. I will try all these things and learn this gun!

[dpricenator]

I have a Storm XT and it was decent until the pring broke with less than 500 rnds though it.  I sent it to Shadow and gracious it’s a whole new gun.  So at some point you may want to look into that.  However, I could shoot decent groups with it once I figured out the hold.  I used a fist and rest the gun just in front of the trigger guard.  It just sits on my thumb and index finger at the top of my fist.  I’ll tell you this, I have showt powder burners for my entire childhood and teen years, and have taken deer at over 200yds.  A pellet at 20 yds with a springer is harder.

[CharlieDaTuna]

You may have a problem with the scope or scope mounts but it is extremely doubtful that it is in the gun itself. When it comes to inaccuracy with a springer, if you have a good gun (and you probably do), 95% of the time it's either the stock screws are loose, the pellets being used, the scope or mount or the shooter behind the trigger.    I'm not being critical but few people that are really good shots with powder burners are very good at shooting springer’s initially. Shooting springers is a whole new world and must be learned.  

Springer’s do not shoot like a powder burner, pumpers, Co2 or PCP. Most springers do not shoot well from a rest position whether it is hard or soft although it can be done with a lot of practice. They need to be held with the fore stock rested in a open hand between the thumb and forefinger with the pistol grip held lightly and stock floating in the shoulder with your thumb resting on top of the action. Then it's a matter of finding the point of balance at the fore stock. Once you learn to do this, you will see the groups tighten up.  

I suggest that you start at about ten yards and work your way out when testing sight setup and accuracy.

If you are using a scope and if your gun has iron sights, I would try shooting it using the iron sights and that will determine if you have a scope issue although it sounds to me as if you may have a holding and hold sensitivity problem and possibly incorrect pellet choice or combination of the two.

Have you done some pellet testing to see what pellet your gun likes best??? This is extremely important and takes time and patience.   Also, you should be using a dome type pellet especially at that distance. Wadcutters and pointed pellets are usually not very accurate.

 NOTE….Important… Do not use heavy or light pellets in your gun.

 Although heavy pellets such as the Kodiaks will not damage Co2, PCP, and Pumper type airguns, they can and will sometimes cause severe damage to the main spring in Springer Guns, and especially applies to the Gamo CFX. They can cause damage and spring fatigue beginning with just a few shots and when disassembled, the damage caused by heavy pellets and detonation is easily detected and identifiable .(although true magnum spring guns can handle heavier pellets)  The spring failure is usually not the fault of the spring. Use heavy pellets at your own risk and expense.

For the longevity of your spring gun

My suggestions are for .177 caliber gun that the  maximum pellet weight should be 9 grains and the minimum of 7 grains.  
My suggestions are for .22 caliber gun that the  maximum pellet weight should be 16 grains and the minimum should be about 13 grains.  

There are several articles on my website on the "Airgun Info" page regarding pellets, hold sensitivity, scope setup, and accuracy as well as many other articles that may help you.

Charlie's Airgun Info Page

  http://charliedatuna.com/Airgun%20Info.htm


 There are also articles in the library on the forum also.

 

I hope this helps and with time and patience you will learn the knack of shooting a springer and once learned, it's like swimming.... You never forget.

 CDT

[atoms]

Thanks for the info. Looks like I have some learnin' to do.

[EJB]

Best web site I have found.  There is a ton of info on your web site.  Hope you are enjoying retirement I sure do.

[atoms]

Charlie - In-freakin-credible! Your advice about holding the gun differently made all the difference in the world. I went from the group above to a MUCH tighter group INSTANTLY. I was so used to holding a rifle so tight.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice!

[SoCalNative]

Umm..I thought the Titan was a nitro piston....not a springer...? With a springer I can understand the hold sensitivity...basically I believe all AG's have some kind of hold sensitivity versus powder burners. Then again I think accuracy has mostly to do with ammo involved and needing to hold the gun versus putting her on a rest. Give me a BAR, M-16, Remington and I can disassemble them and reassemble them in less than 5 minutes. An AG gimme a few minutes to view the schems and I'll give it a shot. Amount of grains in a cartridge will do variances along with the bullet itself. An AG you get major wind affection, variable weights of the pellet even if is from the same tin, cheaply made parts from China(piston and other parts) and expecting same variances from an AG and powder burners. Just my 2 cents there.  

[dpricenator]

Nitro pistons are just a different item to do the same job as a spring.  the inner working are very similar.  The reason for the hold sensitivity, is the double recoil.  The piston still slams forward, the the gun kicks back as the pellet exits the barrel.  So while you do not get the lateral twist you get from a spring, the gun is still very hold sensitive, for the same reason it need to be allowed to slide end to end as the mechs do their thing.

[CharlieDaTuna]

In a nutshell

The only real difference between the gas ram and a springer is there is no torque and no spring vibration with the gas ram.  Everything else that happens in the firing cycle is virtually the same and in the case of the double recoil, it can be worse with the gas ram and quite often be as hold sensitive as a springer. 

Also, the pellet kicking back as the pellet is leaving the barrel is not the case. The gun kicks back as piston is released from it's capture source and the extremely high energy of the spring or ram is released and everything internally is moving forward while pushing the gun rearward. That's the first phase of the double recoil.  (this event begins even before the pellet begins to move)

Then the fast forward movement of the powering device and piston comes to a very sudden stop as the piston hits the bottom of the compression chamber with a sudden stop and drives the action forward. Thus the second phase of the double recoil.

 This event happens in just a fraction of a second and before the pellet even exits the barrel in almost all guns and in many guns, before the pellet is 3/4 of the way down the shoot chute.

Hopes this helps for some of the new guys to understand the double recoil in springers and gas ram guns. 

CDT

[freeriderock]

I was having one heck of a time with my Beeman..........similar lack of consitant shots.  I tried sandbags to zero it in, a bipod, a tripod, basically everything BUT the artillery hold.  I got VERY determined and spent a few hours loosening the hold, adjusting the grip- and finally it was like the waters parted.  Nail that hold and it will come together. It's more of a feel than something one can read about.

[oilstain]

So, to ask a s00per n00b question, how does one bench rest a NP?

I've been gently resting it on a wooden V where my offhand would normally be (choked up, ala close to the trigger guard) using a loose grip and having it snug-ish to my shoulder.

What is the proper Bench Rest technique?

Thanks, learning a lot,
Oilstain

[nomadlives]

So, to ask a s00per n00b question, how does one bench rest a NP?

I've been gently resting it on a wooden V where my offhand would normally be (choked up, ala close to the trigger guard) using a loose grip and having it snug-ish to my shoulder.

What is the proper Bench Rest technique?

Thanks, learning a lot,
Oilstain

I usually lay my offhand flat on the bench and rest the rifle on it  right in front of the trigger guard. I find the balance point were I can let go of the gun and it will balance on it's own on my hand.

Lately, i've been gripping it lightly with my offhand but at the same point of balance.

Also, if i'm sitting, I will rest the elbow of my trigger hand against my leg for more stability. That really helped my groups alot.