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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General > Air Gun Gate

Question about heavier weight pellets

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Mark 611:
 All I can say to this is and I won't further this thread beyond this point is, when I go out pigeon shooting for example, the birds I shoot with a 14.3gr .22cal pellet drop dead 99% of the time at ranges between 60 and 100yds with velocity's between 800 to850fps with my spring guns! birds that get shot at the same distances with a .177cal spring gun with a 10.5gr pellet in the same velocity range tend to fly off more than they drop dead on the spot! I don't know what kinda game your shooting or at what distances all I know is what works the best between the 2 calibers on the game I shoot and this go up to G-Hogs at 85+yds with head shots my 20cals won't plant them either like the .22cal will but it works better than the .177cal hands down. I shoot distances not close ups and my experience with close up shooting 50yds or less a 7.9gr .177cal will do the job with velocity's between 800 to 950fps with proper shot placement. :P

Onebaddj:
Wow hats alot of math and stuff.

I have found in my 470 and 350 in 177 they both shot the heavier pellets with less fpe at 12 in but at the 28 yard line the heavier pellet retained move velocity and more fpe. At 100 yds the lighter pellet slowed so much the it actually had more drop. The lighter pellets had a flatter trejectory out to about 60 yds but te drop after tat was very significant. Shooting at 10 yd increments through a chrony really opened my eyes to how the pellets perform.

Compareing a 177 to a 22 is really no comparason. My 22 350 packs as much or more fpe at 28 yds with 14.66 gr pellets as my 350 and 470 do point blank with any pellet.

rsterne:
The bore of a .22 cal air rifle is actually 0.217" which is 22.6% bigger in DIAMETER than a .177.... however, the AREA of the .22 cal pellet is 50.3% larger.... The larger pellet will displace 50% more tissue for the same penetration (as in, for example, a passthrough)....

For two pellets of equal energy, the heavier one will have more momentum.... Take a .177 JSB Exact Heavy of 10.3 gr (considered a "heavy" pellet) and a .22 cal JSB Jumbo Exact of 15.9 gr. (considered a "medium weight" pellet).... Launch them both with a muzzle energy of 20 FPE.... The .177 will be travelling at 935 fps while the .22 cal will be travelling at 752 fps.... However, the momentum (mass times velocity) is 0.0430 Lbf-s for the .177 and 0.0534 Lbf-s for the .22 cal (24.2% greater).... If the pellet fully transferred it's energy to the target, the target hit with the larger pellet would be accelerated 24.2% more.... ie it would feel a harder "hit"....

The two pellets I chose happen to have (on purpose) the same Ballistics Coefficient (0.031).... If you look at the remaining energy and momentum at 50 yards, you get the following:

.177 pellet - 10.3 gr. - 13.35 FPE - 0.0351 Lbf-s
.22 pellet - 15.9 gr. - 13.35 FPE - 0.0436 Lbf-s

They both have the same retained energy but the .22 cal still has 24.2% more momentum.... In addition, ChairGun gives "penetration" values.... Using the above examples, at the muzzle it gives a penetration of 2.95" for the .177 and 3.67" for the .22 cal.... At 50 yards, the penetration is 2.41" for the .177 10.3 gr. and 3.00" for the .22 cal 15.9 gr.... In both cases, the .22 cal has 24% more penetration....

While both .177 cal and .22 cal pellets are quite capable of dispatching game with an accurate placement.... it is pretty clear that for guns of equal energy, the advantage lies with the larger caliber.... for everything except trajectory.... When you factor in that that vast majority of guns (Springers, MPPs, CO2, and PCPs) will launch a .22 cal pellet with more energy (FPE) than the identical gun in .177.... it gives even more of an edge to the .22 for hunting....

There is still a place for the .177 in hunting.... for example in England where they have a 12 FPE limit.... The choice there would lie between a 7.9 gr. pellet at 826 fps and a 14.3 gr. pellet at 614 fps.... Medium powered springers often fall right into that power range, and because they are such sweet shooters, if you need the flatter trajectory then the .177 may be better for you.... On the other hand, with modern PCPs being able to launch heavy pellets in .22 cal in the 900 fps range.... and some are even capable of doing that with .25 cal pellets.... when you really need to "reach out and touch someone" the bigger bores really shine....

Bob

Mark 611:
Thank for summing this up Bob! :P

Bullit:
Yeah, and I have a 52 that's faster than the posted Velocities in the S.S. data. But I didn't want to make it a personal experience study.  The "Our Take" data was fine to illustrate gun/pellet performances in different combinations.

Bob, you're right that if you shoot both at the Same Velocity, the results are quite different.  The S.S data was to illustrate that the same factory A/G will not shoot the same velocity in .22 as opposed to .177. That's why I find the .177 JSB Heavy data compelling.
  
The point is that using the same Air Rifle, you Don't get the same Velocites, because of the extra pellet weight.  Unless the spring/powerplant is upgraded, it won't shoot the .22 at the same velocity as the .177.

Finally if you believe Dr. Beeman's Data on required energy to dispatch various game, then the "Our Take" findings clearly show how big of game various air rifle/pellet combos can dispatch in caliber .177 (providing the shooter is capable with them).
I'm happy you're happy with a .22, but I won't accept hearsay that it's the be all end all for hunting.   If I'm hunting out over 60-70 yards, regularly, for anything larger than rabbits, I'm using a REAL .22.  I don't wanna bother with lugging around all the extra gear required for PCP rifles at this time.  22s are light, flatter shooting, accurate, and cheap to shoot, still.

I stand that the Straight Shooters "Our Take" data for various Airguns and Pellets is a good place to see "real world" comparisons and illustration of pellet performance....which was the original post by the Author.    I applaud them for providing the extensive data and appreciate their efforts.  

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