Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal

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steve yosi mi

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Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« on: May 05, 2011, 06:10:42 AM »
some things I have learned in the past 2 weeks about big bores, more testing over the next 3 or 4 months I have my own range in the back yard, benchs set up at 25-50-75 yards
and bought the 3 sam yang big bores 357 45 and the 50 calibres
Good info there on the .50 bore, .......WOW boy, you got all the new toys allready ?  :) :) :)

I am 69 soon to be 70 years old, took care of people all my life now its my turn to make me happy, love the pellet guns, shot all most every thing there is to shoot in 58 years of shooting, these compare to muzzle loaders except they are more fickle with bullet speeds and shape of the bullets, just got into them last spring, shot 10,000 rounds thru 4 Crossmans in 4 months ( I have about 12 others also), used a chrony while i did the testing of bullets and speed.
  I noticed that the bullets would catch a tiny bit some times when bolted in and that bullet allmost always shoot off a 1/8 to 1/4 inch, you can't use any thing that has petroluem products in a PCP and knowing pam is non stick and food based oils I tried it, improved every pellet gun I own as a bullet lube, use very little, I put the bullets in a top off of a pellet can and spray them very little and then gently swirl them around making sure they all have a small amount on the bullet, after using this for 30 or 40 shots the barrel has some in it
  another thing I found was that after 650 FPS all my Small .22 cal guns shot wider groups, I expect bullet hole with five shots to go thru the same hole or close when you pay 4 or 5 hundred dollars for it, My crossman Maurauder is adjustable in every way on the air, thats where I learned that speed isn't always good,   Most people would be happy with a quarter size group but a quarter measures 1 inch, not that good, I use coins in my photos for size reference, a dime is about 5/8 of a inch , well by slowing down the crossman it does a 1/3 of a dime size group, at 800 fps its about a 5/8 group the size of a dime, I have shot many groups with one hole at the slower speeds.
  Now these big bores are a diffront thing and the same, mainly because of the selection of bullet types and I can only pull  the hammer strike back to about 3/4 of full cock, I did this on the 357 but my crohny wasn't working but it did shoot tighter in the slower mode, in the next months I will be shooting these 3 Big bores a lot. I will be testing the conicals some more but the round balls out preforn them for the time being. I write every thing down and study it  it doesn't make sense that the conicals shoot worse at 25 yards. will do a lot more testing on them, I slugged all my Barrels with soft lead to get the exact diameter to order molds for them. the .357 sam yang takes a ,360 ball, the 45 takes a 457 ball, the 50 takes a 500 cal ball,
  some one said on another site said he didn't want to shoot it in the basement is right, pretty darn loud, some say as loud as a .357, no not that loud maybe like a .410 shotgun but a diffront sound not a sharp crack a longer drawn out sound similer to a muzzle loader. 
 

Offline lloyd-ss

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2011, 08:12:07 AM »
Steve,
Glad to have you on here.  We'll be waiting to see what you have to show us.  Some folks only want to see the targets, and other like the data.  I am very curious about the data, and with 3 nice big bores, it should be fun.
Keep posting!
Lloyd
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An engineer by nature. The affliction is knowing that everything can be made better.
Crosman 760, B3 .177, B40 .22, Gamo1000 .177, RWS54 .22, Discovery prototype .22, Discovery .25  80FPE, unusual custom PCPs .25 cal to .510 and 700FPE    My website www.airgunlab.com  The Disco Double  The P-rod Double     My YouTube channel is    1227air500

Offline Tad

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2011, 12:20:02 PM »
Steve,

Great info.  I got the air gun bug a couple of months ago.  I was dieing to get a big bore, but logic prevailed, and I got a discovery .22.  I love it, but still Have the urge for a big bore.  Looks like you you have all the guns I am considering, so I hope I can pick your brain.  I'd be most grateful for any insight that you can provide

I'll use the gun almost exclusively for target.  I'm starting with a pump.  I love the power of the bigger calibers, but I would imagine that they use much more air.  Also, the velocities are rather low, and seem to drop pretty dramatically with each shot. With the Discovery at about 800 fps, I have about a 6 inch hold over to hit the target.  It would seem that the hold over for a .50 cal at 700 fps would be significantly higher, and would increase dramatically and unpredictably with each shot.  Is this true or am I missing something?

Following this logic, I am leaning towards the .357 at 900 fps.  I'd like more shots/fill, so I'm looking at the dual tube version.  Is this all logical, or is there a compelling reason why the larger calibers would be more fun for target?

Where did you get your guns?  Must places show that they won't start delivering until June.

 

Offline bluzjamer

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 12:34:22 PM »
Welcome Steve,
I made the basement comment, not as old as you but getting there. I also have shot for years...just got into AG's this year.
Used to qualify at local PD indoor range for CCW permit. Using a 45 it was loud even with muffs on. I don't know the power of the big bores and don't want to trust my backstop basement or backyard with these. Right now I'm kind of ball and chained to new puppy so getting to gun club is a problem.
I stop the WFH 25 cal, the RWS 52 in 22 and the magnum 177's with my backstop.
Just don't want to push my luck...Oh it also stopped the Blizzard 22 which is my most powerful 22. Now if only I can get it back from UPS.
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2011, 01:37:08 PM »
Thanks for posting, I'll be looking for your future threads
  • North Shore Oahu Hawaii
Evanix Rainstorm II    .357 "Tuned"
Evanix StormPup  II    .25 "Tuned"
Evanix RainStorm II    .25
Evanix TactiStorm II    .22
Evanix Blizzard             .22 "Tuned"

Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2011, 01:53:10 PM »
Taken from more expert Big Bore shooters than I on an other forum :

The Dragon Claw .50 apparently has the same barrel as the Dragon Slayer.

The D.S. shot very well both the .495 Roundball and the .490 roundball
  • North Shore Oahu Hawaii
Evanix Rainstorm II    .357 "Tuned"
Evanix StormPup  II    .25 "Tuned"
Evanix RainStorm II    .25
Evanix TactiStorm II    .22
Evanix Blizzard             .22 "Tuned"

Offline bluzjamer

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2011, 03:30:38 PM »
Thanks Manny
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steve yosi mi

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2011, 04:05:38 PM »
Got my mold from lee today, molded up about 50 bullets R/B, didn't weigh them but lee says 188 grain, Did Mic them  and they were what lee said a true .500
   Sprayed them with pam, took about 8 shots, the first was 590 FPS, it increased with each shot, till 618, my tank is down to 2300 PSI is the fill I was using, used the half power also, barely a difference, about 605 average for the half power so no sense using it
   The trigger pull is so strong i Had to look at the saftey to see if I had left it on. shot 3 shots for score but hard to hold because of the trigger pull, 2 shots thru one hole and the third was cutting those 2, A Dime covered all three, , With this shot at 25 Yards bench rest scoped gun. If I knew how you post a photo here I would post some targets as I go along.
all 3 of these sam yangs will dent a piece of 1/8 inch metal hanging on wires pretty good, will not dent 1/4.
   Now that I got my chrony working I will be doing a lot more testing in the next month or so.
   After I get them all shooting at 25 yards I will move back to 50 and then 75 yards
By the way the .50 is the double air tank, I f I had to do over I would have gotten the single, really not any advantage and it is slower than the singe by about 50 FPS.
  Single or double this is a shooter with the .500 Round ball ,
but with the conical 2 to 3 inch groups with  the same outside dia of .500
   

Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 04:43:45 PM »
Yeah single tubes are the go on the Sam Yang

Airguns don't shoot well bullets without bands

A good example of good bullets is this,   the big lubes







  • North Shore Oahu Hawaii
Evanix Rainstorm II    .357 "Tuned"
Evanix StormPup  II    .25 "Tuned"
Evanix RainStorm II    .25
Evanix TactiStorm II    .22
Evanix Blizzard             .22 "Tuned"

Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2011, 04:53:37 PM »
An other example of Airgun made for bullets

http://www.mrhollowpoint.com/6785.html
  • North Shore Oahu Hawaii
Evanix Rainstorm II    .357 "Tuned"
Evanix StormPup  II    .25 "Tuned"
Evanix RainStorm II    .25
Evanix TactiStorm II    .22
Evanix Blizzard             .22 "Tuned"

Offline lloyd-ss

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2011, 07:47:32 PM »

 ............... If I knew how you post a photo here I would post some targets as I go along.........
 

Hey Steve,
Looking forward to your reports.  Posting pictures is a bit of an effort but you'll get used to it.  Somebody may have an easier way, but this works here and for other sites, too.

Go to www.photobucket.com and set up a free account.  You can set up different picture albums there with different levels of privacy.  Start by making everything private.  Upload your pictures to photobucket.  One annoyance is that you can't upload PDF files there, but darn near everything else.

After you have copies of your pictures on photobucket, when you are typing a post on the GTA, leave a couple of lines open wherever you want to insert a picture.  Then, have photobucket open in a different browser tab, hover over the picture, and a box with 4 options will pop up.  Click on the one that says IMG, then go to the spot in your post where you want to insert it, and hit Ctrl C, and that will pop the link  for the picture into the post.  Then, click on "Preview"  and the picture will open in the preview.  Make sure it looks ok.  That's it.  You can keep all your photobucket setting s at Private, and the pictures will still link ok.

That's it !

Lloyd

  • Central Virginia
An engineer by nature. The affliction is knowing that everything can be made better.
Crosman 760, B3 .177, B40 .22, Gamo1000 .177, RWS54 .22, Discovery prototype .22, Discovery .25  80FPE, unusual custom PCPs .25 cal to .510 and 700FPE    My website www.airgunlab.com  The Disco Double  The P-rod Double     My YouTube channel is    1227air500

Offline lloyd-ss

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2011, 07:49:48 PM »
Hey again Steve,
Maybe you can post the start and end pressures of the various strings sometimes if it's not too much trouble.  Several of us are real data-hounds.
Thanks,
Lloyd
  • Central Virginia
An engineer by nature. The affliction is knowing that everything can be made better.
Crosman 760, B3 .177, B40 .22, Gamo1000 .177, RWS54 .22, Discovery prototype .22, Discovery .25  80FPE, unusual custom PCPs .25 cal to .510 and 700FPE    My website www.airgunlab.com  The Disco Double  The P-rod Double     My YouTube channel is    1227air500

steve yosi mi

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2011, 10:56:07 PM »
Taken from more expert Big Bore shooters than I on an other forum :

The Dragon Claw .50 apparently has the same barrel as the Dragon Slayer.

The D.S. shot very well both the .495 Roundball and the .490 roundball

An other example of Airgun made for bullets

http://www.mrhollowpoint.com/6785.html

Those 490's made for the dragon would slide down my barrel, a 495 ball will I know
because I was holding it upright and the darn thing rolled down 5 or 6 inch's before I
 could catch it, had to push it thru from the front.
and those bullets on the link can't understand the pricing, if its 25 to 30 dollars a 100
I would be broke in a hurry, 50 to100 shots is a average day
 

Thanks Loyd, I have photo bucket
 and as far as the air consumption, the gage on the rifle
reads 0-5-10-15-20, when I do fill it to 3000 PSI it stops on the 20 which is 3000 PSI, ea
 shot 600  to 700 PSI, form a fresh load 28 to 3000 PSI it uses about 650 Psi per shot,
and that's all three guns, I was shooting 4 shots per load but that's pushing the limit.
      Now that sounds like a lot but I have filled from the same tank down from 3000 psi
to now about 2200 psi and it's about 35 fills, got excited the first day and didn't mark
down the fills, any way at average per fill of 3 shots times 35 is a 105 shots and still going
when it decreases from 3000 psi down to 2200 2300 you get 3 shots max but as far as I
can tell same FPS even though its a lower psi, still consumes the same psi no matter
what the start was about 650 PSI per shot..
 now with my smaller .22's they get about 1200 shots per full 3000 psi tank with 27 fills
 and the big bores get about 100 to 150?? max per full tank about 1 tenth amount of shots
 compared  to a .22
I am going to run this tank down to at least 1600 PSI and see what the FPS is per shot
and probably 2 shots per fill i am guessing
trying Photo bucket sam yang .357 5 shots at 25 yards with .360 round ball


heres a photo of 3 shots sam yang 50 cal R/B

[/img]
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 11:09:02 PM by steve yosi mi »

Offline jetmangd

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2011, 11:18:10 PM »
Steve,
          Welcome to the Big Bore Gate,I am looking Forward to the Sam Yang .357 , .45 & .50 Caliber Testing.
          Sam Yang Rifles are great. I have a LeRoy Tuned .45 (.456 ) and it is a Performer. I just got a Jack
          Haley.58 Boomer Carbine, 3 months ago that I am still testing all aspects of the Rifle. I am Currently
          waiting on a Quackenbush .50 (.495) Caliber long action Bandit to be built by Dennis. I am sure I will
          learn a lot from your testing of your 3 Sam Yang Rifles. Looking forward to the posted Information of
          your Extensive tests on your Sam Yang Rifles.


                                                  Jetman / Gary / Disabled US Army
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 11:26:38 PM by jetmangd »
Jetman /Gary / Disabled US Army

              
              .58 Haley Boomer Carbine             
              .50 DAQ OutLaw Bandit
              .45 LeRoy Tuned Sam Yang 909S
              .25 Shinsung Infinity
              .25 Benjamin Marauder
              .25 WFH  (Rane Air Tuned )
              .22 Tuned 800X Crosman
              .22 Baikal 513M
              .177 Stoeger Camo X50
              .177 QB-78 Gold Tech-Force
              .177 SX60C Xisico

Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2011, 04:16:17 AM »
Taken from more expert Big Bore shooters than I on an other forum :

The Dragon Claw .50 apparently has the same barrel as the Dragon Slayer.

The D.S. shot very well both the .495 Roundball and the .490 roundball

An other example of Airgun made for bullets

http://www.mrhollowpoint.com/6785.html

Those 490's made for the dragon would slide down my barrel, a 495 ball will I know
because I was holding it upright and the darn thing rolled down 5 or 6 inch's before I
 could catch it, had to push it thru from the front.
and those bullets on the link can't understand the pricing, if its 25 to 30 dollars a 100
I would be broke in a hurry, 50 to100 shots is a average day
 

Thanks Loyd, I have photo bucket
 and as far as the air consumption, the gage on the rifle
reads 0-5-10-15-20, when I do fill it to 3000 PSI it stops on the 20 which is 3000 PSI, ea
 shot 600  to 700 PSI, form a fresh load 28 to 3000 PSI it uses about 650 Psi per shot,
and that's all three guns, I was shooting 4 shots per load but that's pushing the limit.
      Now that sounds like a lot but I have filled from the same tank down from 3000 psi
to now about 2200 psi and it's about 35 fills, got excited the first day and didn't mark
down the fills, any way at average per fill of 3 shots times 35 is a 105 shots and still going
when it decreases from 3000 psi down to 2200 2300 you get 3 shots max but as far as I
can tell same FPS even though its a lower psi, still consumes the same psi no matter
what the start was about 650 PSI per shot..
 now with my smaller .22's they get about 1200 shots per full 3000 psi tank with 27 fills
 and the big bores get about 100 to 150?? max per full tank about 1 tenth amount of shots
 compared  to a .22
I am going to run this tank down to at least 1600 PSI and see what the FPS is per shot
and probably 2 shots per fill i am guessing
trying Photo bucket sam yang .357 5 shots at 25 yards with .360 round ball


heres a photo of 3 shots sam yang 50 cal R/B

[/img]


Robert Vogel (Mr Hollowpoint) bullets are excellent, but I don't by them myself because there no way i can afford them.


I have a bullet maker looking into the barrel of the Dragon Claw, and indeed it seem like it's bigger than the one of the Dragon Slayer ( like you mentioned).


on the 909s I shoot the EPP/UG .458 with excepional results, or the .457 Roundball
  • North Shore Oahu Hawaii
Evanix Rainstorm II    .357 "Tuned"
Evanix StormPup  II    .25 "Tuned"
Evanix RainStorm II    .25
Evanix TactiStorm II    .22
Evanix Blizzard             .22 "Tuned"

Offline melloroadman

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2011, 11:53:43 AM »
Good old paper patch .Marvin

Offline jetmangd

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2011, 12:37:24 PM »
      NP,
    
      I get my choice of Any 100 Conical Bullets, Mixed Calibers for $70 including Shipping from Bob Vogel AKA.
      Mr. HP , He offered the deal to me when I was E-Mailing him about .45 , .50 & .58 Caliber Lead. Bob is the one who
      informed me that his .456 Ammo was for my 909S Sam Yang .45 . And he also made some suggestions on some
     .495 Conical Bullets for my soon to have .50 Caliber Long Action Bandit. The .58 Caliber Conical Bullet & Ball I First
      shot Is the B Vogel 433 Grain Hollow Point & 286 Grain Lead Ball that Jack Haley & Reba sent with my Boomer. NP
      it the Shipping to Hawaii from the Con / States or are Mr. HP Prices just not cost effective for the amount / Quantity
      of Lead you shoot. Let me Know.

                                                       Jetman / Gary / Disabled US Army
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 12:39:13 PM by jetmangd »
Jetman /Gary / Disabled US Army

              
              .58 Haley Boomer Carbine             
              .50 DAQ OutLaw Bandit
              .45 LeRoy Tuned Sam Yang 909S
              .25 Shinsung Infinity
              .25 Benjamin Marauder
              .25 WFH  (Rane Air Tuned )
              .22 Tuned 800X Crosman
              .22 Baikal 513M
              .177 Stoeger Camo X50
              .177 QB-78 Gold Tech-Force
              .177 SX60C Xisico

Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2011, 12:58:22 PM »
I've being dealing with Rob for sometime now, I have many of his bullets and killed several things with them :)

really like them , but the average price of 30 bucks for 50 count is too much for me, for example I get 750 count .458 bullets for 60 bucks, that's s big difference.


....But guys Robert Vogel (Mr.Hollowpoint) ammo is quality I strongly reccomend it !!!!
  • North Shore Oahu Hawaii
Evanix Rainstorm II    .357 "Tuned"
Evanix StormPup  II    .25 "Tuned"
Evanix RainStorm II    .25
Evanix TactiStorm II    .22
Evanix Blizzard             .22 "Tuned"

Offline lloyd-ss

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2011, 01:11:21 PM »
Steve,
Thanks for the info on air usage.  I guess you figured out that your gauge is marked in Bar x 10.  
So, 20 is actually 200 Bar.  If you multiply that by 14.5, it gives you PSI   200 Bar x 14.5 = 2,900 psi

When i am just shooting lots of bullets for fun, I will use bulk cast lead pistol bullets from Midway or my local gun shop. In the range of $35-$50 per box of 500.  The lead is a little hard, and some of them I have to swage for proper fit, but they work ok.  Like NP said above, make sure they have big lube grooves so that the amount of barrel contact ( and friction) is kept to a minimum.

Lloyd
  • Central Virginia
An engineer by nature. The affliction is knowing that everything can be made better.
Crosman 760, B3 .177, B40 .22, Gamo1000 .177, RWS54 .22, Discovery prototype .22, Discovery .25  80FPE, unusual custom PCPs .25 cal to .510 and 700FPE    My website www.airgunlab.com  The Disco Double  The P-rod Double     My YouTube channel is    1227air500

Offline Butcher45

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Re: Sam Yang Big bores 357-45-50 cal
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2011, 03:43:59 PM »
650psi per shot?  Is that according to the gauge on the gun, or the regulator on your fill equipment?  I have heard in the past that the gauges in the Korean guns are not to be trusted.

650 psi per shot seems like a whole lot for a SamYang.....that's about what an XP Ranger uses per shot when putting out 550+fpe.  My tuned 2tube 909 uses goes down no more than 200psi per shot for four shots....more like 130-150psi per shot.

GTA - What's been your success with air gun target practice?