Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?



Author Topic: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?  (Read 25500 times)

manowar669

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Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« on: May 01, 2011, 04:39:34 PM »
Gas piston guns are said to be the future of piston airguns.  Is it really that big of a difference from a spring gun?  I've never fired a gas-piston gun.  Is it that much quieter?  Less torque.  Is torque a huge problem?  How about reliability/durability?  I'm on the fence between a gas piston, and a springer as my first adult airgun (I'm 41, I guess I'm an adult).

Offline amb5500c

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2011, 05:29:48 PM »
Another advantage you forgot to mention is the fact that you can leave a gas piston gun cocked with no illeffects, unlike a spring.
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manowar669

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2011, 06:28:14 PM »
Yeah, that too.  Great for a hunting rifle.  Is that a Titan in your avatar?  The Titan is one of the rifles I'm considering for my purchase.

Offline Jay

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2011, 06:30:37 PM »
Really to me the gas piston seems to have a more pronounced sharp thump/jump to them than a springer but its such a short cycle that really its no big deal(except to the scope maybe), I see alot of companys making gassers but springers are never going to go away thats for sure. Being kinda new alot still needs to just have a wait an see factor in durability an such, but I have something like 3,000 or so on mine an its doing great, an like Richard said they can be cocked an ready for a shot without worry of the gas taking a set(maybe more pressure on the seals is all). For a first AG about all I can think of is a spring is cheaper to replace at this time if/when the power plant does go down.
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Offline 454 Big Block Chevy

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2011, 06:30:53 PM »
i refuse to believe a gas strut/piston will EVER replace a steel coil mainspring... but they are a nice alternative!
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Offline Muppit

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2011, 06:36:02 PM »
i gave a g1 extreme which is a springer and the titan which is a gas ram, they are essentially the sam air gun just differant power source. the titan shoots so much better. quiet from a shooter stand point gun makes little noise you hear the pellet hit the target and that makes more noise to me. i liked the gas ram so much i converted the g1 to a gas ram......dave
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OldiesButGoodies

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2011, 06:39:22 PM »
Yeah, that too.  Great for a hunting rifle.  Is that a Titan in your avatar?  The Titan is one of the rifles I'm considering for my purchase.

I would definitely recommend it, and either tune it yourself or send it to a pro tuner. I made my first airgun purchase about a month ago and started with a springer. It had a lot more recoil, was harder to cock, and sounded a lot louder than the Titan.

Offline Shawnzx

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2011, 06:43:08 PM »
The Gas pistons are quieter, smoother, and less hold sensitive than a spring.


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Offline amb5500c

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2011, 06:54:09 PM »
No, mine is not a Titan it is a Benjamin Trail XL1100. It does not have tack driving accuracy but has excellant hunting accuracy. I think I own the most powerful and fastest one ever created. I could be wrong and if so, then I stand corrected. But mine shoots CPHPs at an avg. of 930 fps and delivers approximately 27 fpe.
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Offline Nomadic Pirate

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2011, 08:19:25 PM »
I will eventually turn all my springers into Gas-Ram for sure, and will never consider getting a springer again :)
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Offline Fisherdude

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2011, 12:57:01 AM »
For my money, a tuned spring powered rifle shoots just as good as a gas piston rifle (at least they shoot as good as i can).  Maybe the absence of torque and spring vibration helps a little, but I don't see that much difference.  For me, being able to leave it cocked for hours while hunting is the biggest advantage that gas pistons have over steel springs. Also, the gas pistions are cleaner to work on.
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Offline MichaelM

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2011, 01:53:20 AM »
For my money, a tuned spring powered rifle shoots just as good as a gas piston rifle (at least they shoot as good as i can).  Maybe the absence of torque and spring vibration helps a little, but I don't see that much difference.  For me, being able to leave it cocked for hours while hunting is the biggest advantage that gas pistons have over steel springs. Also, the gas pistions are cleaner to work on.

this is more or less what I believe as well....

while stock to stock a gas piston is smoother and quiter (to the shooter because of no spring twang downrange they are more or less the same) tuned side by side there is very little difference between them.... the gas piston has the bennifit of being able to stay cocked more or less indefinatly, but even then the whole leaving it cocked  this is blown a bit outta proportion... google it and the experiments show that it took weeks of the spring staying cocked to show any apreciable difference in speeds.... so I wouldnt think a few hours here and there would make a real world difference at all but thats just my opinion....

coil springs on the other hand can be tuned and gas rams cannot (unless you shell out the big bucks for a rebuildable and adjustable gas ram.... ) so coil springs give you the bennifit of really tuning the shot cycle and speeds by adding or removing shims, while gas rams well you get what you get... and I have personaly seen differences as high as 50-70 fps between two rams of the same part #....

so pretty much I feel right outta the box rams have the advantage... no twang or torque helps make the gun feel better.... but if your going to have the gun pro tuned the margin is practicaly eliminated and springs may still offer more bennifits with its flexibility...... that is until adjustable/rebuildable ram technology is able to come into the market at a pricepoint comparable to the more or less disposable rams thats in the low end market now....

one last thing... as a tuner gas rams are a dream to work on...after deburring, polishing,trigger work, and all the other assorted odds and ends there is no real adjusting or spring guides... a bushing to keep the ram head centered in the piston and a sleave for the ram body to keep the piston from rubbing and your good to go... no spacing or fitting spring guides to springs or grinding and polishing spring ends and fitting thrust washers etc etc......

Offline JonnyReb

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2011, 02:18:10 AM »
  While i agree that rams are better in many respects, i love the "feel" of a well tuned spring gun as it's much softer shooting than the sharp "thump" that Jay described.  I might prefer a gas ram for a hunting gun but would choose a springer for target or plinking. I like both of them each for their own characteristics. J
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Offline gene_sc

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2011, 09:04:41 AM »
Yes the newer production gas rams from Crosman are much smoother to shoot. They do not torque when shooting them. I tend to agree with Jeff about a well tuned springer though. I have many springer's that are very smooth shooters and I would say as smooth a shooting and firring cycle as a gas ram out of the box. But springer's need to be tuned in order to achieve this.

Up to a point gas rams are no more powerful than a good spring. Only exception would be the new Crosman Magnums. They can exceed the most powerful magnum springer's out there such as the Patriot. Gamo Extreme, etc. Most of the 1000 fps smaller guns in spring guns may be a bit stouter in some models.

All in all the new gas rams are great for those who have problems shooting  springer. Less sensitivity for the most part.

I do not think gas rams will ever take over a good quality spring guns entirely.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 09:30:59 PM by gene_sc »
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Offline shadow

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2011, 10:11:13 AM »
The ole gas ram vs. spring the brothers above pretty much said it all. I tune them both but I'm old school and really love my springers. I'm a die hard airgun hunter and there's just something about successfully taking game with a spring powered shooter. Ed
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Offline Nathan

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2011, 10:30:40 AM »
Gas rams have a higher cocking effort for a comparable amount of power developed. If you have a unrepairable ram and it looses compression, you're up the creek till you can get a replacement. If you damage/break a spring, you can (usually) source one  easily and replace it yourself. Each system has advantages and disadvantages, but I don't see either one totally replacing the other.

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2011, 01:03:07 PM »
One more thing to level the spring vs gas ram playing field.

I converted a springer to gas ram and bought another gas ram gun both for hunting. Didn't want to have to worry about coil spring guns being cocked for long preiods of time and possable changes of point of impact (POI) while hunting.

Instead, as others have also found out, when hunting during colder weather than when the gun was sighted in, the cold drops the gas ram pressure and POI changes anyway !

Gotta get some electric socks to keep my gas ram guns warm !  ;)

Paul.

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2011, 03:38:26 PM »
I loved my gas rams a lot more than any spring guns I had owned.  All I can say is that they are just smoother in every way.

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2011, 08:05:48 PM »
I have heard great things about nitro pistons but I am going to get a pcp.

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Re: Spring vs. Gas Piston. Is it really a big deal?
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2011, 02:28:44 AM »
Arn't the gas rams filled with nitrogen which is not suppose to change pressure due to changing temperature?

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