Author Topic: No love for the old Webley Hawk MKIII? Updated with chrony results (Read 9539 times))

bald1 · « **on:** November 04, 2016, 05:21:03 PM »

I just joined GTA recently and noted in my intro post that I had dusted off an old Webley Hawk MKIII .177 that I bought at Beeman's in San Rafeal back in 1978. It was listed in the catalog that year for $76.95 and boasted specs of 6.5 lbs weight, 17 1/8" barrel, 41" OAL, and performance of 8.07 fpe and 650 fps with 8.6g grain pellets. Certainly the Beeman Webley Ospry sidelever cocking fixed barrel rifle, especially the "supertarget" model with heavier barrel, walnut stock, and Anschutz micrometer sights were significantly more refined at $128.98 and $199.98 respectively available that same year. I remember handling in the showroom and lusting after both the FWB 300S and 124 but these were simply out of the question for a young naval officer with a family to support.

I hadn't used it in over 30 years. The Beeman 2-7x20 3/4" tube scope had a bent adjustment bell and locked elevation adjustment so it was trashed and needed replacement. While scoping out options I found a few posts around the net about the old MKIII. None were very complimentary which puzzled me somewhat. I recall being rather pleased with the performance back in the mid '70s and used it out and beyond 35 yards successfully. When pulling it out I even found a small stash of ammo: Mount Star Jet radiused flathead 8.2g, Beeman Silver Jet Magnum Pointed 8.39g, and Beeman H&N Match wadcutter 8.18g pellets. Wish manufacturers would go back to the styrofoam square packaging Beeman used back then.

The old Webley, fitted with a new UTG 3-9x32AO MilDot Hunter 1" tube scope rekindled my airgun desires and I soon added a Crosman P1322 carbine and Gamo ACCU22 rifle. It has been giving me dime sized 10 shot groups at 10m with most all pellets I've tried.

Anyone else have memories or even still have a Webley Hawk MKIII .177? Were they really that bad and if so must I have an execeptional sample? Or being basically a novice just satisfied with the mediocre? LOL

n.h.schmidt · « **Reply #1 on:** November 04, 2016, 06:59:11 PM »

I have one in .177 .My first barrel bender air gun. It can just manage 730fps with many of the lighter pellets. Accurate enough for most sporting uses. I got mine at about the same time from Beemans. The story was that a shipment for Iran was halted due to the upset in that country at that time. They were then offered to us at a good price.
n.h.schmidt

bald1 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2016, 07:29:36 PM »

n.h.

Appreciate your post. I haven't chroned mine but found your 730fps interesting. Just how light were the pellets?

And as for Iran, one of the posts I found when searching included this verbage:
"The HAWK MarkIII was being used by the Iranian army for marksmanship training. This was during the reign of the Shah before he was deposed and the Ayatollah replaced him as ruler. The Shah left Iran on 16 Jan 1979. At that point the contract IRAN had with Webley for these air rifles was curtailed and Webley was left holding a bag full of the HAWK MarkIII rifles. Apparently the lot or most of it was sold to a US gun distributor/dealer who advertised them in the Shotgun News for $99.00."

LAalex · « **Reply #3 on:** November 04, 2016, 11:40:06 PM »

Don't have one of my own to share experiences with, but just wanted to say thanks for the post and the pics. I love the "blast from the past" posts. I grew up in the '70's and shared a Benjamin 347 with my older brother. Wish I still had it. Can still picture every inch of it in my memory, down to the crack in the wrist my Dad repaired.

Scotty

pneuby · « **Reply #4 on:** November 05, 2016, 01:12:10 AM »

I'd be proud to have a classic like that. I still think it's a sweet looking rifle, comparable to an R7.

bald1 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2016, 02:12:19 PM »

Some chrony results for the old girl. Original spring and PTFE piston rings that have been sitting for ~35 years.

n.h.schmidt · « **Reply #6 on:** November 07, 2016, 01:19:52 PM »

I will have to get mine down from the rack and set up the crono again. I know it is faster than my B3-1 under lever 177 rifles. I can get 690 with one a 700 with the other. I do not use the tin based pellets for this testing. I have a notebook with the figures and pellet types used.
I will get it out and provide better information. The fit of the barrel block in the fork is free to slide side to side with no friction . This shouldn't work well but mine shoots fine. It locks up fine .
n.h.schmidt

bald1 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 07, 2016, 02:35:58 PM »

h.n.s,
Would love to see your results. Mine obviously are below the factory spec of 650 fps w/ 8.6gr. But I tend to attribute that to the old seals. If yours also are original and 35-40 years old, well i may have to rethink things.

lillysdad621 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 07, 2016, 02:42:24 PM »

i got an old webley vulcan carbine MK11 i think, with the shorty 9 inch barrel. mine is very consistent with the CP lites at 756 fps +-4. i did not thought it was a powerhouse and it has never lacked power for the tasks at hand. My avg is of a 30 shot string

GP2004 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 07, 2016, 02:42:41 PM »

I have a Webley Vulcan that I bought from Beeman around that same time. I looks like the same rifle and the same stock. Mine is marked 'Beeman', so it is a standard Beeman catalog item. It still shoots well with the original seals, but I do store it with the barrel slightly bent down to relieve the pressure on the breach seal. I have not shot it over a chronograph.

bald1 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 07, 2016, 02:54:05 PM »

Quote from: GP2004 on November 07, 2016, 02:42:41 PM

...shoots well with the original seals, but I do store it with the barrel slightly bent down to relieve the pressure on the breach seal.

I was clueless and stored mine with the barrel locked up all these decades.

GP2004 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 07, 2016, 03:13:07 PM »

Quote from: bald1 on November 07, 2016, 02:54:05 PM

Quote from: GP2004 on November 07, 2016, 02:42:41 PM
...shoots well with the original seals, but I do store it with the barrel slightly bent down to relieve the pressure on the breach seal.

I was clueless and stored mine with the barrel locked up all these decades.

My rifles that have an easy to replace breach seal, I store with the barrel locked, but the Webley seal on my Vulcan seems to be an odd size, so I wanted it to last as long as possible. It looks as though my fear was unfounded as yours has lasted all this time.

n.h.schmidt · « **Reply #12 on:** November 07, 2016, 05:59:01 PM »

Mine has not been apart . I don't know where a new breach seal can be found. It's mounted different than any other seal I have seen. I looked at my notebook. I have to revise down the speed I was getting. These are averages
Daisy WC 700fps at 14 feet 655 at 33 feet
Gamo Match 656 at 33 feet
Crosman Destroyer 641 at 33 feet
That's it all I recorded.
I will set up the crono and get you guys more readings. It is slower than I remembered
n.h.schmidt

bald1 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 07, 2016, 08:38:19 PM »

The old bracketed by the new

n.h.schmidt · « **Reply #14 on:** November 08, 2016, 09:33:30 AM »

I fired my Hawk over the pro chrono last night. I have some new speeds. All are the avreage
Jsb exact 8.44 RN 660mv
Rws Hobby 7grs 739mv
Crosman Premier 10.5gr 546mv
I know its not popular today but I have been using rws chamber oil in the Hawks chamber. No problems .
n.h.schmidt

bald1 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2016, 11:09:31 AM »

n.h.s,
Appreciate the new data. Certainly makes my old gal look tired in comparison.

n.h.schmidt · « **Reply #16 on:** November 08, 2016, 01:07:28 PM »

Do you use any chamber oil? It is easily possible that simply shooting more will perk it up. Otherwise maybe the piston seal is not so good. I have a old Diana recoiless match gun that the seals were replaced at about that time .The seals crumbled about 15 years later. I only recently found new seals to replace them with. That gun laid on the basement floor for about 20 years. It suffered for it too.
n.h.schmidt

bald1 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 08, 2016, 04:04:29 PM »

No chamber oil on hand. Just Crosman pellgunoil. Would that work?

Buldawg76 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 08, 2016, 04:23:48 PM »

Bob
Do not use the pellgun oil as it is petroleum based and could cause detonations when it ignites from the heat of compression just as a diesel engine does when running. It can be dangerous if not seriously hurt you or someone else.

Instead you need some silicone based oil to put two or three drops in the compression chamber with the barrel broke open but not cocked and let it sit standing on the but pad in a corner for 15 minutes or so to drain into the chamber completely. If there is a hobby shop in your area that sell RC cars they would have some silicone shock oil in 50 or 100 weight that would be acceptable to use or some divers silicone oil. If you have an industrial supply house you may find some silicone oil there as well. its needs to be a non petroleum based oil so it has a very high flash point to help prevent detonations. The silicone oil will diesel or detonate as well but not with the intensity that petroleum oils will.

Mike

bald1 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 08, 2016, 04:37:53 PM »

Thanks Mike. I'll see what I can find.

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No love for the old Webley Hawk MKIII? Updated with chrony results

Author Topic: No love for the old Webley Hawk MKIII? Updated with chrony results (Read 9539 times))