1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?



Author Topic: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?  (Read 15305 times)

Madkoifish

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1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« on: April 14, 2011, 05:04:23 AM »
Ok, I almost wet home with a pc77 from wallyworld all black stocks. I was not to sure if it would take all the 1377 stuff out there. But PyramydAir lists the 1377c and pc77 as the same thing. I see some posting this pc77 is different and read the opposite that all features are now in all new 1377c Even the one I looked at at Big5 had the plastic plates and hex bolts. SO what is the truth here? If I got this gun would I be able to add a long break/shroud, longer barrel for the break/shroud. Any of the steel or stainless breeches? I am attracted to the wallyworld gun due to the black stocks, even if temp they would tie in with any changes later on and well I avoid dealing with shipping at my location.

Now the other reason for this post is WHO sells barrels and have them stocked for sale? I have looked at a lot of sites and almost all are sold out "no longer stocked" "out of business"

Plan is to possibly go flat head replace the breech and carbine the thing through a wire or a shouldered stock. Looking for a rebuild-able gun and "toy" for plinking and small pest removal with stealth. My Trail NP is great but a bit bulky for that quick pot shot. And quite tiring after a long day of plinking. Everyone gets the wobbles from it.  I am also looking for a "guest" gun since apparently I am the only one who can shoot my hb17 and hit anything.

Since I am looking for a quiet gun do the breaks/shrouds help any at all in this regard? Protecting the crown though is enough of a incentive to get one.

I would like to control sound as much as possible. Since I plan to use this indoors, mostly in a basement so lots of reflected sound from hard surfaces. As well as not to annoy the *(&^ out of the neighbors. but anything that helps improve accuracy, well "consistency" would be great barring the shooter of course.
Something like the below links is what I am thinking of. I am not to much in for looks but a uniform bild would be nice. Not into getting exotic wood grips annoed rainbow parts etc. Have to admit though the wirestocks with extended barrels do look nice.

http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods5/tactical006.jpg
http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods5/IMG_0246.jpg
http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods3/1193793376.jpg
http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods4/P1000593.JPG
http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods5/MHfullright2.jpg
http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods4/Pair%20Right.jpg

Some of these I know I cannot get the parts since the guys who made them are no longer selling.
I would likely mount a red dot or a low power scope to it. (bad eyes)
I still have some google results to thumb through and a few more blogs to read but I figured I will tap the knowledge here as well!

Thanks for the time.
MKF-
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 06:35:32 AM by Madkoifish »

Madkoifish

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 06:24:02 AM »
Found this info
Quote
1389-010 forearm assembly.................... 9.50
1389-022 Stock 1389............................ 12.50
1760-001 1760 barrel............................ 16.75
781a012 2289 band screw...................... 1.20
788b011 2289 band (polymer)................. 1.85
A&B-01 Cut & Crown barrel 1760&2260..... 5.00 *now 8$*
Only issue I have is that barrel it looks to make the whole thing some 40" or so. Is it 24"? and what sizes are there. Also forgot to ask what order should one go about doing things. It looks like people go for the flattop bits and internals or breech first. Then move on to the barrel stocks etc.

Offline Rescue35

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Offline JMJ in NC

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 10:22:06 AM »
As far as I know, the 1377c American Classic has essentially been replaced by the PC77 Pumpmaster Classic. The PC77 has a few improved features, but also some cost-cutting features as well.

The PC77b is the black version of the PC77, nothing more as far as I have read.

Join the Crosman Pistol Forum as there is a LOT of great modding info over there.

To answer your questions:

Crosman sells the 24" barrel - you have to order over the phone. I just bought a .177 barrel for mine, along with a few other upgraded parts - Crosman steel breech, plastic barrel band, 2289 pump arm, 1399 rear stock, Mellon bolt, FT piston & valve.

I'm sticking with basic black - the 2289 fore-grip is actually green and I painted mine with satin black paint for a near perfect match to the 1399 rear stock.

I'll be making my own shroud for it, but I've heard that a shroud or LDC does help with noise. Mine in stock form is already pretty quiet at 10 pumps, and has the punch to dispatch squirrels at 11m (took 4-5 already in stock form, iron sights, domed Remington 7.9gr pellets).

A great gun for modding.

JMJ
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 10:24:21 AM by JMJ in NC »
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Offline 1377x

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2011, 04:35:08 PM »
go to accustoms.com
mellonair.com
for pc77/1377 parts best prices fast service
other than cosmetics they are basically the same gun
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Offline Rescue35

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 06:48:30 PM »
Just ordered some parts from Crossman. Great prices and shipping is just $4. Their Customer service can't be beat. In 7-10 days I'll have a "PC22" for $20 in parts.
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Madkoifish

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 10:44:40 PM »
Yeah I am fighting with should I go 22 or stay with 177 since finding out it is a easy conversion and after having the .22 trail NP. I do not think I will need to use it for pests unless it is somewhere tight. Likely it will be used as my backyard toy so the 22 has me worried the extra fpe could get out of my yard. The Trail easily punched holes through the fence boards. BUT 22 is a lot of fun, where 177 flys through items a 22 tears em apart.

I will likely pick up a pc77b or whatever the designation is from wallyworld tomorrow. I have yet to find any other local places that carry these with the same price, online is going to cost more even with deep discounts some places offer.

Any ideas on cheap AO low power scopes?  I have considered replacing my Trail's scope with a bugbuster, the Center point's focal length is too far for some of my pest related shooting. And yeah shooting flys with a 177 sounds like a good evenings worth of fun.  :D

What is the length of the gun with the 24" on?  Most sites I have found offering it either cut and crown it free or recommend you have it done. Is the factory stuff that bad? I know what I found under the shroud on my Trail was nasty and very ugly. I assume most of these guys selling other lengths are using these barrels and cutting them to length. I want a bit of length to cut report and aid in accuracy but still want it short enough to cut down in length I was hoping for a sub 24" gun from the back of the receiver. Not to mention enough length to add a shroud or the like to tart it up and protect the tip.

Is the shipping flat 4$ for everything or per item?

I will go lurk that forum posted for info and more ideas, uh trouble to get into. So far I have read first thing to fix is the barrel band since the new one is junk. SO maybe I will order the steel receiver barrel and stock from crossman after all then save up for the flattop and other custom bits. Read something about Marauder bands fitting on it so I wonder if I can do this instead of the plastic band. Kid of hard looking at part #s without visuals as to what those parts are. I think I should go dl all of the pdfs in hopes for exploded views with call outs.

Thanks for the help, info and urls!

Last question, that grip is it hard plastic like the stock parts or more of a nylon? Wondering if I can just dye it vs painting it. I assume the shoulder stock is no longer green as well. (seen a few of these through searches)

yeah, I am WAY to wordy
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 10:47:31 PM by Madkoifish »

michael word

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2011, 01:06:21 AM »
If you plan on doing any hunting with it, I would go to .22 caliber. I converted my 1377 to.22 with a 14 inch barrel. With the stock piston and valve, I am getting 450 fps with cp pellets for a 50% increase in energy over .177 caliber. With a flat top piston and valve, I hope to get up to 520-550 fps.

Madkoifish

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2011, 02:56:30 AM »
I dont think I will do any hunting with it. Maybe some pest control for when the trail is too big or noisy. Likely use it when we go on a "gun" day The idea of 22 is it is a bit more "fun" to see cans and stuff jump or loose large chunks. Also less of the "did I hit it?"  I know many will just say buy a second and get both! which I might end up doing in the end. . . . :D

Real issue though is the FPE with a 22. Can I contain it in a backyard? The Trail I do not shoot as often as the 177 since I have holed my fence and found rounds were punching easily through one end and out the other of my steel shed. SO it now is used only with a 4" backstop and pest control. Part of the reason I have been tempted with the 1377. But @600fps and much lower FPE Im not sure how much I should worry with a 22 vs 177. 

Think what I will do is shoot it some stock before I decide which way I will go. I do have a pile of 177 laying about.

michael word

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2011, 03:30:44 AM »
The 1377 stock will only shoot about 490-500 fps, not the 600 they state on the box. At this velocity, the pistol has about the same amount of power as your typical low powered match rifle. My 1377 will barely penetrate a 2-liter bottle filled with water at 25 yards in stock form and bounces off empty bottles. The power is only about 4.6 fpe versus about 16 fpe from your trail. So it is relatively safe for backyard shooting. Even for pest control I would recommend .22 as it still only produces about 6.5 fpe, which is still less than the trail, but will make sure you give them a more humane kill.

Offline Rescue35

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2011, 09:19:12 AM »
My reasons for going .22 are hunting, 14.5" barrel without cutting it down, and I want one.

The only crossman .177 barrel longer than the stock 10.25" is 24" and I see no reason to crank up the lathe to cut it down.

Crossman's shipping was a flat $4 for the entire order and there was alot of stuff in it :)
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Madkoifish

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2011, 03:45:12 AM »
Well here she is picked her up from the wallyworld near the old nuttree, think they call the area the nugget now. So some flimsy bits here and there but some odd things like it looks like the barrel breech is threaded. I have to wait until I get home to knock out the roll pin to verify. Not seeing any of these hammer shenanigans people have mentioned like closing and not being able to be reopened. Some pics for now, not that great since I am not at my house where I could set things up for better pics. Likely order a barrel, breech and stocks on monday. Decided for now to stick with 177 but I would much prefer to get a 18" barrel over the 24, so likely I will end up with a cut down one (no lathe here so dunno) or a silly long barrel shrug. Maybe a full shroud or long shroud would help heh but length would be nice to keep it down.

Offline Bentong

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2011, 09:50:56 AM »
Barrel on mine was 24" cut down to 19 with a hacksaw, dressed up with a file then crowned using electric drill and honing stone from HF. Shoots 706fps 10 pumps with 7.9 CPL. 12FPE with 20 pumps.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9484/13772q.jpg

Madkoifish

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2011, 12:52:01 AM »
Yeah that is an idea to check, getting the long barrel and doing the cut and crown myself. Only thing Id lack is the bluing but if I stuff a moderator shroud over Ill just have to make sure to moly it or whatnot to protect the metal. Saw a link to the resources with a DIY so I will have to check it out. I just got back and was able to shoot a few rounds, stuff heads to the right by 2" @ oh 30ft so some adjusting on the irons, or would that be plastics? :p for now while i get the order and plan together so I can stick my red dot on and later a scope.

What you got there sir is almost exactly what I am after. Id like to get it so the shroud or moderator is right to the barrel strap, and probably a smaller scope. 2~6 or something able to focus down to 3yrds.

Now I just need to decide how much I want to change out that is not crosman made, bolts etc. Also need to find out how much a moderator or shroud will add to the overall length, atm I probably will only want it for weight and looks. The gun at 8 pumps is much quieter than my HB17 at 3. Trigger is much nicer as well.
Still wonder though do other 1377c/pc77's or other 1377 period have this threaded tip. Going to check the threat type but it does look metric. 10mm?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 12:54:16 AM by Madkoifish »

Offline 1377x

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2011, 03:52:07 AM »
https://mac1airgunstore.com/index.php?osCsid=9302a39558a51f4057597e39951c492e
another great source for crosman parts
i believe he is in or near sacramento,ca
someone correct me if im wrong
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Madkoifish

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2011, 06:26:03 PM »
Nope south of me. Distance is not much of an issue to me. Is this mac the same as the one that guest posts on Mr. Gaylord's blog? I took a look but only saw parts that were similar to 1377, not sure of what there would work on this gun.

Real issue now is if I should just pay the extra for a shorter barrel or just screw it and get the 5$ 24"er and if I hate it a lot spring later for the 30$ part?
I'm a bit at a stand still atm since crosman is not taking orders all week.
I measures 24" off my receiver and it makes the gun 27" from rear sights to the tip. SO I assume it would be a total of roughly 34~36" counting the plastic stock I will be getting this for now until I can locate someone selling the end cap mods for a wire stock. The plastic then will go to my hb17.  This does assume the steel receiver does not push the barrel out further. But looking at how this gun is made the barrel needs to be where it is for the transfer port. Need to replace that too since the upper part is metal to metal. Bottom has a gasket. Thinking shoegoo would work for a temp until I can locate poly tube of the right size.

Anyhow cannot wait.

Weight:
I have found this thing rises easily at higher pumps, I assume this is due to it's weight. Im wondering how much the longer barrel will help. THis also leads to another question,

Shroud/break: How much length do these add? The one on my benji touches the barrel with a spacer to allow the air to flow into it. It is a threaded deal where the ones for this gun are allen keyed. SO is it a variable thing? The shrouds/breaks appear solid as well. Though the carbon ones Im at a loss with. I am considering brass or alum, like to get it annoed or powder coated black, but that is just an appearance thing.

Trigger: I have seen people adding finger pads to the triggers is this just a bit tapped out with set screws onto the trigger? My hb17 trigger is heavy and thus uncomfortable. Sadly that uses a wire spring vs a coil so I cannot change it too easily without drilling holes into the gun. (not sure if I want to do this atm)

Cutting the barrel and crown: Ok the only issue is cutting that thick @@@ barrel, but really that's just a case of time and effort. I have a band saw but likely will do it with a hacksaw too if I cheap out on the $30 part. The real question is how do you protect the now raw finish from rust? Just make sure it is covered on molly or oil? Or thin coat of paint?  My benji I have the same issue since the crown was &^^& on it I filed and recrowned the thing but I just dumped grease on it for now.

Wear:
Anyone have issues with the plastic plate that covers the trigger sear etc? Since it retains all the piviot pins etc for the trigger and sear I am concerned about those holes widening up and creating slop. I have also noticed the arm for the pumper getting scratched up from the tube. Is this a common issue? I am left handed so I pump with my right hand so the scratches are on the left side of the arm.

So far it seems this gun is weaker than my hb17. I cannot tell if it is more consistent since the irons are like 3 times as thick. 30~40ft out the front sight is 2 times wider than a soda can. :O So I cannot wait to get the red dot mounted. It is much quieter and far easier to pump than the hb17. Granted I need 5 pumps to the hb's 2 or 3.

Finally that threading, after taking the gun apart it is just bad lathe work to mill the tip down to fit into the barrel "clamp" Well I guess it could be called threading in some form :p 

Buy list as of now

stage 1
longer barrel (24 to try out)
Steel breech/receiver
Carbine stock
backpacker pumper arm
hinge deal/barrel band (really would like a metal one but cannot find anything @ crosman)

stage uh 1.5?!
longer probe! stock one is kind of hey!.
3/4 dove to weaver/picatinny for easier junk attaching. (likely to get my np's scope)

Stage2
Flat top and related parts
transfer port seal thingy.
rear cap deal for wirestock and power adjuster thing (not sure how this bit works but I assume it allows spring changes)
spring to allow full release of air
possibly replace the plastic parts in the compression area. see image ( I think this IS the piston itself)


Stage 3
expensive bits, stocks maybe? (might make these myself depends on if the new house has room for the shop tools)
real scope?
??
Stage4
extra barrels? or another gun to do 22. ffff

Not sure how much of this will be done in order, since I am still learning what is what. Sorry for the LONG post and 20questions. I have not had much time to research constantly on the road lately. Most forums do not play nice with the crappy browser on my cel.

Offline slothart

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2011, 08:12:05 PM »
Some grip options if you haven't already seen it...
http://www.rbgrips.net/CROSMAN1377.html
He also makes wood inserts for the plastic stock and the gallery has some examples of full wood stock as well.
Air Arms: TX200HC (.177) / Beeman (Webley): Tempest (.177) / Benjamin: P-rod, 310, & 342  / Crosman: 1377carbine / Sheridan: Blue Streak (rocker) & Steroid Blue Streak (rocker)

Offline 1377x

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2011, 11:16:30 AM »
ill try to answer some of the question
the barrel .177 or .22 go for the 24" you can always cut it to length.hack saw ,band saw ,miter saw the important thing is the cut is straight there is a tutoral here for crowning
poly tube is just 1/4" refrigerator water line
i use a 4" long 3/4 diameter muzzle brake on mine.works great for the neighbors
the plastic grip frame cover is fairly new.have to wait for reports to come in but so far so good
for end cap stock mounting check these guys out
www.mellonair.com
he makes a paintball stock adapter that would work for you
www.accustomparts.com
he makes a nice wire stock
both priced fairly
with a steel breech you can mount scopes and red dots
triggers many vendors for those too many to list but if you need help finding them let us know
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Madkoifish

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2011, 02:03:22 AM »
Ok one question who offers breeches other than crossman that are still purchasable? Most i see are email only or 3rd party sales in the 80$+ range on sites not updated in years. I read that the breech sold by crosman isnt that great. I do plan to get a aftermarket long probe bolt. SO would this tighten things up?
I am looking at melon air for the bolt.  Maybe going with the #7 bolt handle. Not sure here which is easier on the fingers or if it is just an appearance thing. I do know stock is a bit short.
I am considering ACCustom parts for the flattop valve and piston. (assume you need both) and a matte black shroud from them. Planning to get one that will mostly cover the barrel from the band out. Again, I am not sure how much barrel goes into the break/shroud, does it go into the shroud/break most of the things length or just a few inches in? O_o

Right now it looks like I will end up ordering the crosman breech for now.

MountainMan126

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Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2011, 08:35:39 AM »
Yes, if you get a F/T piston you need the matching valve to go with it. I have the Crosman breech on mine, no complaints on it. I am also looking to do the longer, probably flow through bolt at some point but haven't yet. I think my next upgrade is going to be a raised comb somehow. I haven't decided on what materials to use yet.

I have never ordered from these guys but I believe this is still available for a non-Cros. breech set-up.
http://scopesandammo.com/storefront/product_info.php/brass-breech-kit-for-crosman-13xx17xx22xx-p-427

Ethan

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