Do You Need More Power .

[39M]

I purchased a very cheap refurbished Ruger Black Hawk Elite.  I installed a 12 lb docile spring, new seal, moly, heavy tar, etc.  After it has settled down (think I used too much lube) it is way smoother and enjoyable to shoot than before.  No twang, little recoil, and trigger is pretty good.  My most shot break barrel with the XS-12 being close behind.  I love it but IMO it is ugly as H-E-double hockey sticks and the balance is a little off being front heavy.  I like it so much that I'm looking to purchase a Walther Terrus or HW 50s to be my go to paper/light critter class.

Chop the barrel 4 or 5 inches and it'll be just like a d34p pro compact.

[seitg74]

I purchased a very cheap refurbished Ruger Black Hawk Elite.  I installed a 12 lb docile spring, new seal, moly, heavy tar, etc.  After it has settled down (think I used too much lube) it is way smoother and enjoyable to shoot than before.  No twang, little recoil, and trigger is pretty good.  My most shot break barrel with the XS-12 being close behind.  I love it but IMO it is ugly as H-E-double hockey sticks and the balance is a little off being front heavy.  I like it so much that I'm looking to purchase a Walther Terrus or HW 50s to be my go to paper/light critter class.

Chop the barrel 4 or 5 inches and it'll be just like a d34p pro compact.

That is a very good idea but I have never re crowned a barrel.  It is a darn good shooter and a shorter barrel might be just the ticket.  So you are thinking about a 12" length?  It cocks pretty easy now so that shouldn't be a problem either.

[39M]

I'd take a compact fishing pole. Maybe one of those 3 foot long kids models with the zebco 33, and find some bugs for bait. If you can find a pond, lake, or deep stream, more than likely there's a few hungry fish in there.

Nevada desert might not be the best place for fishing though. I don't know.

[39M]

I purchased a very cheap refurbished Ruger Black Hawk Elite.  I installed a 12 lb docile spring, new seal, moly, heavy tar, etc.  After it has settled down (think I used too much lube) it is way smoother and enjoyable to shoot than before.  No twang, little recoil, and trigger is pretty good.  My most shot break barrel with the XS-12 being close behind.  I love it but IMO it is ugly as H-E-double hockey sticks and the balance is a little off being front heavy.  I like it so much that I'm looking to purchase a Walther Terrus or HW 50s to be my go to paper/light critter class.

Chop the barrel 4 or 5 inches and it'll be just like a d34p pro compact.

That is a very good idea but I have never re crowned a barrel.  It is a darn good shooter and a shorter barrel might be just the ticket.  So you are thinking about a 12" length?  It cocks pretty easy now so that shouldn't be a problem either.

The part that counts, around the bore, isn't that difficult. And if that handle on the end can be taken off and put over where you cut, then it would hide any cosmetic flaws.

I've read that on a springer, you won't lose any velocity down to 9". But it will probably be a little louder.

Might want to push a pellet through it to see if the barrel is choked first. If it is, and you cut the choke off, it might not shoot as good.

[seitg74]

Thanks for the tip.  Just looked up the pro compact and the barrel is listed at 15.75 and the Black Hawk is 19, so 4 to 5 is good. 

[K.O.]

Not hogwash, it was back in the early 1980s and it was to stretch my supplies not my only means of eating... and yes it was small game of course... I had some healing to do and the time alone was precious to me... I would work most of winter to be able to go and spend the spring summer and fall out... and yes at times I would have to go to town to get another 50-60 pounds of rice beans vitamins shoes treats etc. etc.

I called hogwash on the theory/idea of skill trumping the tool... not the person... you on the other hand without knowing me have done differently...

it was not just hunting that helped stretch my supplies also was taught much about the desert by a Pauite friend and his grandfather when I was young.

I never claimed that was my only means  and you can check my past post for this also...

all that is besides the point though and you can think what you want...

If you want to sharpen your skills yep then work at sneaking up close nothing wrong with that... But from a different goal in mind you want the best tool you can get...

I wanted to wander and see and hear and feel... a Benji pumper was not questioned when a PB would have been... that was the reason for limiting myself... and those limits did inform my perspective...

[stonykill]

Here's a few words of wisdom from the powder burner side to which an airgunner can easily relate.

Too soon we grow old, too late we get smart. Velocity increases at the muzzle are a very poor substitute for stalking within sure killing range and carefully picking your shots. Focusing on shot placement and using bullets well suited for a particular species means so very, very much more. It means longer equipment life, more fun at the range, more success in the field, and a more pleasant shooting experience across the board.

That "little" 24 sure is easier all-round than my RX1.

 Kirby and I are on opposite sides of this. But I understand his perspective. And he is not full of hogwash. Me, I'm with you. Stalk, get close. I have honed those skills over years of bow hunting and perfected it more with AG's. BUT, the big but..... I have terrain that permits this. I can rarely even see game over 40 yards away, as there is too much cover.

  Where you and I differ is the poor substitute part. If you don't have the terrain to allow getting close ( desert, all open fields, etc) then you need to learn to shoot further, and need the power to back it up.

   With the cover I have, and the skills I have developed I have killed a bobcat at 20 yards and a coyote at 18 yards with a 20 FPE AG. And countless raccoon's at 15 yards and less with 12 to 14 FPE. All with 1 perfect brain shot. With both .177 and with .22. Never mind over 4 dozen nutters a year with ag's from 7 FPE to 12 FPE. From a few feet away, to 40 yards away.

  So it depends on your terrain, your particualar skill set, and what your passion in shooting is. At least that's my humble opinion.

[bird blaster]

I started on a pumpmaster then I wanted more power so I thought it was a great idea so I bought a Crosman phantom hoping to be like the guys with pcps on YouTube then I found out that cheap springers were nothing like pcps so I bought a 1322 for a back up gun and a hatsan striker for a primary gun but the 1322 ended up being my primary gun all last summer. Now I got a disco and love it way more than a springer. For me it's accuracy first then durability then power and after that how the gun looks.

[bandg]

Stonykill sums it up pretty well.  Having grown up hunting Arkansas I've been in places so dense you could barely move through it and taken deer across bean fields at great distances.  From delta flatland to Ozark slopes.  It all depends on what skills you have and what your interest is.  Short range, long range, high or low power.  We can enjoy it all in one way or another.  That's what makes it a great hobby.

[Charles Outdoors]

Are you ok with Factory air guns .
For general shooting . 
Or want MORE POWER .
To see things Explode ?

I want it all! I have the low end FPE covered and my upper end is maxed at a little over 100 fpe. I can see a 200ish fpe gun and a 500+ FPE airgun down the road.
Some guns take well to power mods and some don't.

I laugh at .22 rimfires now. 

[Back_Roads]

The fascination with more power in a springer is a first indication of a newbie. I started there but eventually learned my enjoyment was greater with less power and more accuracy. When I went PCP I figured out that power meant pumping. I dialed my PCPs down to less than 12 fpe for higher shot count.

Oh and since most of my shooting is in a barn I need to limit my power to avoid damage to buildings.

 I admit  I bought the hatsan  125 because it was the closest i could get to PCP energy with out the added cost of pumps , I blame the 125 for my PCP adiction !
 
 also have my Air Force Escape dialed down to magnum springer velocities with the .22 air arms 16 - 18 gr domes shoots sweet and plenty of power and decent shot count , and have another tank set full power for the .25 barrel and the heavy stuff

[Aaron]

Thanks for the tip.  Just looked up the pro compact and the barrel is listed at 15.75 and the Black Hawk is 19, so 4 to 5 is good.

That's only a 3.25" difference, maybe 4-5" is too much? I'd think the energy loss would be pretty drastic at that point, but as a newbie I could be way off.

[seitg74]

Thanks for the tip.  Just looked up the pro compact and the barrel is listed at 15.75 and the Black Hawk is 19, so 4 to 5 is good.

That's only a 3.25" difference, maybe 4-5" is too much? I'd think the energy loss would be pretty drastic at that point, but as a newbie I could be way off.

From what I have read, barrel length doesn't affect a springers power like a multipump or pcp.  I read that it might increase accuracy because pellet stays in the barrel less time and less hold sensitivity.

[MicErs]

  Where you and I differ is the poor substitute part. If you don't have the terrain to allow getting close ( desert, all open fields, etc) then you need to learn to shoot further, and need the power to back it up.

This is not me disagreeing with you.  I have hunted mountains in the east, woodlands in the eastern tidewater, Oklahoma prarie, San Angelo, El Paso and Arizona desert.


The truth is if you don't have terrain that allows getting close, you are not required to learn how to shoot farther.  Learning to hide better, read game trails better, and use more patience will do as well.  That way you can use the same rifle anywhere.


That is my humble opinion, but I like your's as well.

[stonykill]

  Where you and I differ is the poor substitute part. If you don't have the terrain to allow getting close ( desert, all open fields, etc) then you need to learn to shoot further, and need the power to back it up.

This is not me disagreeing with you.  I have hunted mountains in the east, woodlands in the eastern tidewater, Oklahoma prarie, San Angelo, El Paso and Arizona desert.


The truth is if you don't have terrain that allows getting close, you are not required to learn how to shoot farther.  Learning to hide better, read game trails better, and use more patience will do as well.  That way you can use the same rifle anywhere.


That is my humble opinion, but I like your's as well.

 Actually, now that you said it, I agree. I don't even think about it anymore as it is 2nd nature, but sure, part of how I get close is reading sign. Seeing game trails, droppings, partially eaten food, etc.

  I agree.

[K.O.]

Required no, Big advantage yes...

In the desert reading game trails is a bit different all the Ys and such tend to point towards water.....

Skill helps but having range helps a lot and I mean a lot... in some areas game is sparse and the game is very wary... game closer to towns well I have quail in my back yard spring and summer...

For you to get within 10 -15 yard there are going to be many missed opportunities that with a 30-50 yard range would have been dinner in the bag...

If a recreational hunter 12 fpe sure see how good you are and take 45 min to get close to a Chukar if you can(and good luck even if skilled in the rocky open areas they tend to like)...

But I still would rather have the range and the skill  and will have more food with less effort... and fewer failed stalks...

I guess I have issue with it sounding like it being suggested having more fpe is only because a lack of skill and I much disagree with the statement...

I can read sign very very well but in the desert  it is better to know where the game will be at a given time of the  day and a given time of the year...

it is about how long ago did it rain and knowing where the water is likely to still be and which pools will be dry...

So in the places hunted why can you not use the same 50fpe air rifle..? 

If just the hunt is the goal fine do it however... but it was a means to an end for me and the exploration not recreational hunting was my goal...

so please quit insinuating that recognizing that fpe does matter at times is only a lack of skill...

[voldar]

When I buy a gun I do my homework and I chose the one that fils my expectations. I use my NP2 for shooting and soon to be hunting at 25-50 yards. If I want to shoot something at longer distance, is not an airgun I am going to use. To kill a hare you need only 5 - 6 fpe. The English do this all the time using 11-12 fpe (at the muzzle) airguns. Just check YouTube and you'll see nice hunting videos at more than 40 m / 45 yards with 11 fpe airguns.

[K.O.]

When I buy a gun I do my homework and I chose the one that fils my expectations. I use my NP2 for shooting and soon to be hunting at 25-50 yards. If I want to shoot something at longer distance, is not an airgun I am going to use. To kill a hare you need only 5 - 6 fpe. The English do this all the time using 11-12 fpe (at the muzzle) airguns. Just check YouTube and you'll see nice hunting videos at more than 40 m / 45 yards with 11 fpe airguns.

now throw in a good wind and that distance shrinks radically part of the story does not make a whole truth...

[voldar]

When I buy a gun I do my homework and I chose the one that fils my expectations. I use my NP2 for shooting and soon to be hunting at 25-50 yards. If I want to shoot something at longer distance, is not an airgun I am going to use. To kill a hare you need only 5 - 6 fpe. The English do this all the time using 11-12 fpe (at the muzzle) airguns. Just check YouTube and you'll see nice hunting videos at more than 40 m / 45 yards with 11 fpe airguns.

now throw in a good wind and that distance shrinks radically part of the story does not make a whole truth...

A good wind has a huge effect even on a Rimfire or a Centerfire carabine. So what's the story here ? The smart shooter always makes his shot when the wind/shooting conditions/distance are right. From my experience more isn't always good when we are talking about guns and precision.
P.S. Yeah, there are some who say even 1" matter, but hey, we have to settle it if it's 1" wider or longer. 

[K.O.]

It means at 50 fpe I can judge drift with much more certainty than when shooting with 12 fpe  handle worse conditions...

 the difference between a 5 mph and 7 mph  wind is hard to judge,  with ~12 fpe (14.3g @625) @(edit* @40 yards) the difference in aim point between the two is almost an inch...

with ~50 fpe  (25.4g @ 950fps) (edit* @ 40 yards) that difference is only a third of an inch...

so the kill zone on most small game is about .5"  which does not have to have perfect conditions..?


so guys what have you hunted what conditions the only specifics by a low fpe hunter I have seen are Toms(stonykill)

There are things being thrown out most are general and not specific that's the story...

the smart shooter... well I did hunt with ~ 17 fpe and if you check my past post you will see I kept most of my shots within 20-30 yards less if wind... but there is better ammo now days than the old green tin Benji .22...

P.S. what??

I am not trying to be a Richard Cranium but guys I do know a decent bit of which I speak...

"
From my experience more isn't always good when we are talking about guns and precision.
"
once again very general...

I do somewhat agree for certain cases like when I had my T.C. Contender carbine,  a buddy of mine helped come up with a 125g spitzer for its 30/30 barrel that outperformed any other round...

but more is not always bad case in point my .25 Mrod (50 fpe) and .177 BSA Buc(20+fpe)... more can do very well...

Not once have I said that 12 fpe hunting is not possible what I have said is that with those same skills (like when not to take the shot) 50 fpe is one heck of a lot more useful in real hunting in many conditions and can be used in most of the same situations as the 12 fpe rifle... and that is reality...

is 50 fpe nessasary in Toms hunting obviously not

but is 50 fpe unusable in Toms hunting obviously not...

I hear the argument that it is just as dead with 12fpe and 50 is overkill in many threads: well the below pic is Mom in early 1962 just preggers with me in the big bend forest of East Texas (Etoile to be exact) and those squirrels where taken the same way many still do : with a .22 rimfire... But hey what do those folk know...

Me when I say that 50 fpe is much more useful  that is because it is... and it has zip to do with lack of skill... I really do not understand why it is that so many take it personally and start throwing out stuff that is very general and to me questionable?


off topic a touch...
Tom I hope I get just a bit lucky and somehow get a bit rich... cause I think you are a kindred spirit and would love to show you some of my old stompin grounds such as the Jarbidge, Ruby, Desolation an Humboldt wilderness areas... places that in the 70s and 80s it was easy to feel the time/spirit of the Paiute and Shoshone because you could go months without seeing any one... but are now more traveled in a more crowded world by those seeking to get away for a while...