Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
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Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
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Topic: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem (Read 7481 times))
vangraff
Shooter
Posts: 88
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Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
on:
September 27, 2016, 04:42:17 PM »
I recently purchased a new Hatsan 88 springer. I have shot about a 1000 shots and the gun seems to be working smooth and well, everything is tight, no lose parts... However i cant get it to shoot accurately no matter what i do. I tried several different hold, scope and iron sights, 6 different pellets... It just wont give me good groups on 10m and at further distances it is hard to hit anything. Pellets just fly all over the targeting area. I pictures below i show hatsan with different pellets at about 10m distance compared to my old crvena zastava springer.
I did not take gun apart, but i inspected it closely. The only defects seems to be rough crown and damaged lands few cm inside bore behind the crown. I post pictures of pellets when i run them through barrel with rod. When pushed with rod through barrel pellet travells smothly until 5-6cm before crown. Then it becomes harder to push until pellet exits. Bore lands on that place near crown are damaged as shown on pictures below.
Another thing i noticed is that even flat head pellets wont cut clean hole in paper even when shot horizontally on paper target. It seems they spin or twist in air and hit slightly sideways. On picture below elongated hole on paper is visible.
Defects on bore and crown seem fairly negligible to be cause of this much inaccuracy to me. Or is there something else i am overseeing that might cause inaccuracy?
Is there a way to fix this crown and bore issues myself.
«
Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 05:13:14 PM by vangraff
»
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anti-squirrel
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Posts: 9733
Wadcutter fan
Real Name: Peter
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #1 on:
September 27, 2016, 06:55:14 PM »
I'm no expert, but I'd say the marks just inside and that crown need some attention. If wadcutters are keyholing at that short a distance, I'd place blame squarely on that crown.
There are several ways to clean it up. The brass-screw method, a deburring tool (and lots of patience), a tapered ream (most people won't have these), and of course, a gun-smithing crowning tool, such as the Brownell's.
The inside of that barrel is another issue entirely. I'm the type of guy who would use 400 or perhaps 600 grit sandpaper to smooth things out, but I can't in good faith recommend doing that. A competent gunsmith should be able to do something, but at what cost- are you willing to pay for this or
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Quinton Virginia
Slingshottist and antique tool junkie
EdGuns, Crosmans, and a couple big-bores from the Far East
longhunter
what if we removed all the warning labels, and let nature take it's course?
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Real Name: Scott Decker
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #2 on:
September 27, 2016, 07:02:26 PM »
If it's under warranty, SEND IT BACK. That fubar'd muzzle is the cause of the accuracy problem.
Only other option , that I can see, is to chop off the offending section of barrel and recrown it.
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casco, wi. USA
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vangraff
Shooter
Posts: 88
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Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #3 on:
September 27, 2016, 08:30:16 PM »
Gun is under warranty and I could send it back but... if I do so I don't know how long it will take to fix or if it is gone get fixed of really anything, because I don't have experience with their costumer service and i don't know anyone who has. Somehow i'm not confident about their costumer service.
On the other hand i own some basic tools (work bench with vise, electric drill with drillheads, grinders and burrs, different grinding files) and working experience to do some less complicated things on my own. I believe I could do recrowning with brass screw successfully and smoothen the rifling. Damaged rifling goes only about one inch inside the barrel so think i could polish it.
I'll see what i can do.
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longhunter
what if we removed all the warning labels, and let nature take it's course?
GTA Senior Contributor
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Real Name: Scott Decker
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #4 on:
September 28, 2016, 05:49:09 AM »
By all accounts, hatsan customer service is very good. I still think you should send it back. The damage inside the muzzle was caused by a piloted crowning tool. Those scars look to be pretty deep.I don't think you'll have much luck trying to polish that out.
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casco, wi. USA
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19Sheridan57
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Real Name: Steve
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #5 on:
September 28, 2016, 08:19:33 AM »
I agree !! Send it back. I had a problem once with a Hatsan & their repairs were done well & quickly.
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Florida
vangraff
Shooter
Posts: 88
yes
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #6 on:
September 28, 2016, 11:28:15 AM »
So i recrowned and smoothened barrel. Now barrel is as good as can bee. Still no improvement in accuracy. Pellets fly all over the target. However i managed to make two decent five shot groups with H&N hammer and econ in pictures below. The odd thing about this is that I held rifle steady and firm as i was shooting firearms. Generally i got much better groups holding gun tight rather than artillery hold. Also heavier pellets tend to hit up right most often.
Could this inaccuracy be caused by vibration? Stock on mod 88 is hollow plastic and the gun is only 3.1kg.
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anti-squirrel
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Real Name: Peter
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #7 on:
September 28, 2016, 05:23:20 PM »
Not a bad job- at least you got some pellets shooting okay. I'm not sure what type of power level that 88 has. IIRC, they are about on par with the 95, which is a heavy pig of a rifle. It might be worth adding a full kilo of weight to dampen movement during the firing cycle to see how it behaves. A lot of folks here talk about putting caulk in the stock, but it will take forever to cure.
I recently sent my Hatsan back for warranty work, and should be getting a replacement on Saturday- but I'm dealing with HatsanUSA. They still appear to be a rock-solid company when dealing with warranty work, but now that you've "modified" your rifle they might not work with you.
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Quinton Virginia
Slingshottist and antique tool junkie
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vangraff
Shooter
Posts: 88
yes
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #8 on:
October 02, 2016, 04:49:32 PM »
I sawed of about an inch of a barrel an recrowned. So now i can bee pretty sure it's not a bad barrel issue. I tested only a few five shot groups but I still can't find any improvement in accuracy. Next thing I'm about to do is stripping it down and checking insides.
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vangraff
Shooter
Posts: 88
yes
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #9 on:
October 03, 2016, 01:21:44 PM »
Today i did some breech seal test. Results are in pictures below. I wonder if this is reason for concern.
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vangraff
Shooter
Posts: 88
yes
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #10 on:
October 09, 2016, 06:46:35 AM »
I tried to unscrew stock screw. That screw is locked so tight I cant unscrew it no matter how hard i try. I also tried smacking it, it did not help.
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Yogi
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Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #11 on:
October 09, 2016, 11:24:38 PM »
You have got some really nice close-up photos!
Thanks for sharing. Have you cleaned the barrel with a brass bush and JB Non-Embeding compound?
-Y
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San Francisco, CA
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longhunter
what if we removed all the warning labels, and let nature take it's course?
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 5437
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Real Name: Scott Decker
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #12 on:
October 10, 2016, 07:45:21 AM »
Josh, before you go tearing the gun apart, try that breech seal with some baby powder, first. by your pictures, it looks to me that the tissue paper got ripped when you closed the barrel.
which stock screw is giving you trouble? the cross screw in front? did you take the little screw out first? or, do you have that apart, and it won't slide out of the mount??
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casco, wi. USA
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vangraff
Shooter
Posts: 88
yes
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #13 on:
October 10, 2016, 09:00:57 AM »
I cleaned barrel with wd-40 and paper cloth. Barell is nice and smooth inside.
Breech seal seems to be ok. No much air leaking and powder test went good.
The front cross screw is so tight two people pushing it on opposite sides could not unscrew it while gun was on a vise. We only moved it a fraction of a milimeter and it made low cracking noise while it moved, but would not go any further. I did not remove any screw, it's all as out of the box still. Next I'm gona fill stock with silicone and put a little thick grease on spring hoping to reduce some vibration.
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longhunter
what if we removed all the warning labels, and let nature take it's course?
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 5437
yes
Real Name: Scott Decker
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #14 on:
October 10, 2016, 10:17:03 AM »
Instead of silicone, use the expanding foam in a can, and some lead fishing weights. Lay the weights in the bottom portion of the buttstock. That will keep your center of gravity lower. The foam takes much less time to dry, and in my opinion, deadens sound, vibration as well, or better than silicone.
It's also easier to adjust the amount of weight using the sinkers, as the foam weighs almost nothing. Just put the sinkers in the stock, until you get the weight where you want it. Then add the foam.
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casco, wi. USA
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SteveP-52
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Real Name: Steve
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #15 on:
October 10, 2016, 11:32:19 AM »
I tried the expanding foam idea. Went back a month or so later thinking to scrape it out and try the 100% silicone/PA pellet foam version I now use to find out I had nothing but a goopy wet mess inside my stock, probably because I filled it all in one shot instead spraying it in there in small layers. The top dried nice but underneath never did and ended up changing back to liquid.
The foam is a nice idea, just spray in small layers and not all at once or yours might end up like mine did.
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NY, USA
vangraff
Shooter
Posts: 88
yes
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #16 on:
October 12, 2016, 06:26:20 PM »
I put some thick viscous grease on spring. I also filled stock with silicone. Now there is much less recoil and vibration.
Still no improvement in accuracy.
Stock screw is still giving me trouble. I can turn small screw about 1/2 turn back and forth but it wont go beyond that. it feels like it gets jammed or something. I think the only way to unscrew it is st drill it's head off.
I also noticed about about 1/8 of free movement in barrel joint screw.
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vangraff
Shooter
Posts: 88
yes
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #17 on:
October 13, 2016, 07:42:14 PM »
Finally I took this thing apart down to last screw. I destroyed small front stock screw in the process so I need replacement. Everything inside looks perfectly normal. I could find only a minor scar on side of piston seal which i think is irrelevant. I am very disappointed. I was hoping to find the problem that was causing inaccuracy. The only thing i found is that the gun is perfectly fine and inaccurate the way it is. I should of listened those of you advising to take it back for warranty. Now i have gun good only for junkyard plinking.
The hard thing is going to be putting it together.
Any thoughts how should I tune it before i put it together?
Is piston seal worth replacing?
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longhunter
what if we removed all the warning labels, and let nature take it's course?
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 5437
yes
Real Name: Scott Decker
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #18 on:
October 13, 2016, 08:01:49 PM »
Deburr the cocking slot, and all cross pin holes in the receiver. Replace the piston seal., taking extra care not to bugger it on the end of the cocking slot.
The answer to your accuracy problem was the loose bolt that holds the breech. When you reassemble the gun, tighten the bolt until the barrel will just hold itself at about 90 degrees to the receiver tube, with the gun in an upright position. If the notches on the breech bolt don't line up with the locking screw, a little tighter is better than a little looser.
You should be able to find a replacement for the small stock screw at the hardware store.
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casco, wi. USA
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vangraff
Shooter
Posts: 88
yes
Re: Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem
«
Reply #19 on:
October 14, 2016, 07:37:38 AM »
Tnx for he info longhunter.
I made some pictures of breech screw before I disassembled it. The screw was slack and had about 1/8 of a turn free play. Barrel was moving fairly easy when gun was cocked.
The only piston seals I can find are those red ones for 10-15$ on ebay. How good they are compared to original?
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Hatsan 88 inaccuracy problem