GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: JonnyReb on March 20, 2011, 02:01:37 AM

Title: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: JonnyReb on March 20, 2011, 02:01:37 AM
  Tom Gaylord claims his 34 barrel is choked in this review and i was wondering if anyone knows that their own is, or that RWS is now producing them that way? Thanks. J
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pyramydair.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F06%2Frws-diana-34-panther-part-3.html&ei=LYmFTer1NdOBtgeM__DUBA&usg=AFQjCNHKknUfhgod-8TNkZiYP7uDmyclBA (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pyramydair.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F06%2Frws-diana-34-panther-part-3.html&ei=LYmFTer1NdOBtgeM__DUBA&usg=AFQjCNHKknUfhgod-8TNkZiYP7uDmyclBA)
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: compressedair on March 20, 2011, 09:47:18 AM
This came up awhile ago j.
Some say they're not. At least not intentionally.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,10004.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,10004.0.html)
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: Mark 611 on March 20, 2011, 10:25:15 AM
JR that is a very good question! from what I understand from this post TG could not confirm this question, that is not to say that they my have or might be doing this on their T06 line but if they were they would probly make it known from Diana.
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: thekid on March 20, 2011, 10:32:05 AM
both my 34s .177 + .22 ,  have chocked barrels.

When I push a pellet down the barrel it gets real tight towards the muzzle end, then spits out because of the force needed to push it out. Rob
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: deanda on March 20, 2011, 11:13:57 AM
This is turning into the million dollar question.............hahahahahah
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: Mark 611 on March 20, 2011, 11:20:14 AM
not really cause their a ton of info on the yellow about this subject.
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: deanda on March 20, 2011, 11:24:03 AM
Well.....what is the conlusion on the yellow......yes choked, or not choked?
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: Mark 611 on March 20, 2011, 11:59:12 AM
Tim Meredith has a post on Oct, 27 2009. and gives his view on this subject, I personally will believe his opinions and the the opinions of all the other pro tuners that I know and do business with on this matter who do alot of barrel work chop/recrowns and replacements {etc} that most AG barrels are not a true choked barrels as people are lead to believe, yes some are made with a slight taper at the end of the barrel, this is not a true choked barrel.
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: JonnyReb on March 20, 2011, 01:15:52 PM
 I feel so.. uncertain :)     so i guess ir's up in the air slightly, it does seems like the german made barrels have a better chance of it than the chinese ones probably. And that would be an 8 land barrel correct?  thanks, J
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: deanda on March 20, 2011, 01:24:03 PM
I feel so.. uncertain :)     so i guess ir's up in the air slightly, it does seems like the german made barrels have a better chance of it than the chinese ones probably. And that would be an 8 land barrel correct?  thanks, J

mmmmm  I'm with you Dr.
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: JonnyReb on March 20, 2011, 01:42:43 PM
 So where do you think this may lead Dean?  ;D
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: JonnyReb on March 20, 2011, 01:46:58 PM
Tim Meredith has a post on Oct, 27 2009. and gives his view on this subject, I personally will believe his opinions and the the opinions of all the other pro tuners that I know and do business with on this matter who do alot of barrel work chop/recrowns and replacements {etc} that most AG barrels are not a true choked barrels as people are lead to believe, yes some are made with a slight taper at the end of the barrel, this is not a true choked barrel.


 Well i wonder if you buy a L. Walther barrel, which is advertised as being choked, if you are not getting a true choke? Maybe i should try emailing them and see what they say, and i'll get back to this post,  :)  Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: deanda on March 20, 2011, 01:52:39 PM
So where do you think this may lead Dean?  ;D

I think we may be back at the beginning, right where we started.........lol

Walther answering could help........
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: JonnyReb on March 20, 2011, 01:53:57 PM
 It did give us something to talk about though. ;)
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: JonnyReb on March 20, 2011, 02:00:26 PM
This came up awhile ago j.
Some say they're not. At least not intentionally.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,10004.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,10004.0.html)

  Thanks for this link Mike, it brought up some good points for sure and a few questions i now have for Mark611

  Mark,  When you mention polishing the breech on your L walther barrels, huw much metal are you removing and can you explain in more detail how to choke a barrel with a flaring tool?  Thanks so much,  J
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: Mark 611 on March 20, 2011, 02:32:13 PM
On my LW barrels, I had them cut to the length I wanted from the breech end of the barrel and they were installed into the barrel block of the rifles in question, and the fit was so tight for some of the pellets I wanted to use {10.5gr} that they wouldn't fit correctly so I used a dremel tool and a grinding stone slightly larger than the bore dia and opened it up to accept the larger pellets I wanted to use so they would seat correctly without smahing the skirts, its not hard to do but you must be careful not to wallow out the hole and you don't have to go that deep to correct this problem and it doesn't effect the use with the smaller 7.9gr pellets they still work just fine. A well known AG tuner/builder has told me that is how it can be done I have not personally done it but what hes told me is when using a flaring tool you find the hole size in the tool that is just smaller than the barrel and work the tool down to compress the barrel, you want to do this on the last 1/2in of the barrel alittle at a time and you want to size the pellets as you do this cause it doesn't take much to put a small amount of choke in a barrel, now I not sure what kind of tool he is using size wise to do this kinda of work but this it how he does it and hes very good at what he does, hes a custom AG builder not just a tuner.
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: Mark 611 on March 20, 2011, 03:08:25 PM
also from my understanding the 12 land barrels are the outsourced barrels Diana used for awhile and were not made like the 8 land barrels as far as the taper that Diana uses on there in house barrels, if you have done any research on this issue of chokes and their purpose it all becomes a little clearer, well made barrels don't really need a choke, but a well made barrel with a true choke is even better, tapered barrels in some cases are done this way to help correct inconsistency in the rifling of barrels {lose and tight spots} thats why some barrels feel tighter in the last inch or so of the crown, this helps size the pellet so it has a better chance of being accurate and the barrel being a little less pellet fussy so it will shoot a wider range of pellets more easily.
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: JonnyReb on March 20, 2011, 11:08:45 PM
  Well great info Mark, i'll check it out a bit closer, also, L.Walther offers their airgun barrels either choked or not and seems to justify the use of the choked barrels on pcp guns. J
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: compressedair on March 21, 2011, 01:39:10 AM
Just to muddy the water....
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/06/does-a-choked-barrel-improve-air-rifle-accuracy/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/06/does-a-choked-barrel-improve-air-rifle-accuracy/)
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: Mark 611 on March 21, 2011, 07:47:41 AM
very good info this is exactly what I've been saying.
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: compressedair on March 21, 2011, 09:42:57 AM
But I'm still seeing some ambiguity Mark,, although it could be denseness on my part.  :o

DMikeM's experience with barrel shortening and the fact I felt "roughness" (intermittent loose spots?) in my bore,
makes me a little leery of cropping without having the barrel choked.

Tom Gaylord in some ways creates more questions then he answers. He mentions some accuracy loss with cropping but not how much.
And then,,,"They will tell you the reason the shorter barrels don't shoot as accurately is because of the new crown (the shape and uniformity of the muzzle), but the truth is that no amount of re-crowning will ever get those barrels to shoot again."
But no mention if choking would.

And then,,,In regards to shortening, I know what the experts have told you and find it hard to disbelieve them.
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: Mark 611 on March 21, 2011, 10:33:47 AM
You have to keep in mind TG is a sales man for PA, Cutting and recrowning of a barrel needs to be done by a pro! unless you have the knowledge and experience to do so, a pro is not giong to just cut the barrel without finding the optimal place to cut it, their going to inspect the bore for bad spots and work around it if you have any, you have seen here all the testimonials of those who have had this done and have had great success in accuracy and power increase in their rifles, yes I know theirs doubt in altering a perfectly good rifle to make it what you want but its a choice. I have no fear in doing so cause I trust my AG smiths that I deal with. I myself have and have had lots of work done on barrels to know if its done right you will not lose any accuracy or have anyother problems.  
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: compressedair on March 21, 2011, 10:54:47 AM
Yeah,,I've been a little dramatic even for me. :o
You've convinced me.
Title: Re: Choked barrels on 34's?
Post by: Mark 611 on March 21, 2011, 11:33:04 AM
Mike don't let me talk you into anything, LOL!!!!! I'm just tryin to pass along my experiences here thats all.