Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
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Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
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Topic: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom (Read 4261 times))
Stylo
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Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
on:
October 22, 2012, 07:20:08 PM »
I'm now on my second Nitro Venom (.177). The first one was a lemon, and went back to Crosman (it never came close to grouping acceptably). The replacement, once broken in, eventually grouped nicely, consistently around 1/2" at 10m. But then something happened, and groups opened way up again. The rifle is now at Shadows tuning, and I'm hoping once its insides are cleaned up, there'll be more consistency once again.
While I'm waiting for the NV to come back (I hope it won't be much longer -- the squirrels are now dancing all over my fences) I thought I'd ask a couple of questions. Seems a lot of people think the included scope won't hold up well under recoil, but what's a better option? I already have a BSA Essentials scope and a Leapers AO, both fixed 4x -- are they more likely to hold zero over time than the Center Point?
And I see conflicting recommendations about using heavy pellets. Lots of people seem to find the heavier pellets are more consistently accurate in more powerful rifles such as the NV, but many of the tuners' websites say that heavy pellets can cause problems over time. Or is this more with spring guns, rather than those with gas pistons? I was getting my best groups with heavier (10.5g or so) pellets, so I'd hate to have to give them up.
Finally, I just wanted to say that that GRT-III trigger is an amazing product. If only everything worked as well, and with so little fuss.
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thekid
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4019
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #1 on:
October 22, 2012, 08:17:40 PM »
If it is a Gas piston gun, those pellets are fine.
It will be a different machine, when shadow gives it back to ya!
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gamo2hammerli
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GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 6322
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #2 on:
October 22, 2012, 08:37:38 PM »
My friend H.T got the .177 Venom a few months back....very excellent air rifle. The trigger's not that great though...pretty heavy (At least compared to the GRT III trigger) and have a long pull....still acceptable if used to it.
The scope that came with it....a Centerpoint 3-9x40mm scope was pure JUNK. It was only clear for 3 to 6 magnification...after that the view bacame distorted, the edges were fuzzy and it seemed the sun suddenly went down. That was the worst scope I've ever looked through.....all my other "Package" scopes were better than that one (And those were only 5 pts. out of 10).
And the heavier pellets won't cause damage to the nitro gas ram....so if they shoot straight....use them.
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Nathan
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Real Name: Nathan
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #3 on:
October 22, 2012, 09:01:22 PM »
Shadow is the man when it comes to tuning! You will not regret it. The eratic groups were probably due to the piston seal failing, which happes with many airguns.
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Stylo
Guest
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #4 on:
October 22, 2012, 09:30:47 PM »
Thanks for the reassurance about the heavy pellets!
Now I am REALLY impatient to get the NV back from Shadow -- just hope he isn't too busy. . . .
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FuzzyGrub
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7135
yes
Real Name: John
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #5 on:
October 22, 2012, 10:04:34 PM »
I think the venom has the same scope as my Vantage NP, 3-9X32. Focus is terrible on higher settings, and has a fixed paralax of 15yds. It held zero on my Vantage for over 1500 shots, but that is not much of a test. I have it on a 1377 carbine now.
I found the heavier 10.5 gr pellets worked well in the NP, too.
PS: I did use crosman 1 piece mount vs what came with the rifle.
«
Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 10:09:10 AM by FuzzyGrub
»
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Rural New York
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Bullit
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8152
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #6 on:
October 22, 2012, 10:31:21 PM »
What will help your scopes survive are a couple things.
Buy a 1pc scope mount.
Keep your scope as close to "optical center" as you can.
If you have "barrel droop" (Very common), and you adjust your scope elevation way up...the inner tube (erector tube), won't have enough spring tension on it to keep it in place. They float and are held in place with springs. It'll bang around in there...a failure waiting to happen.
If you can't get close to bullseye without cranking it up, buy a "Droop Compensating" scope mount.
Pyramid Air sells them. They also show videos on these topics in their "Airgun Academy" section.
Good Luck to Ya!!! Mike
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Kentucky
mtbdrew
Expert
Posts: 1124
yes
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #7 on:
October 23, 2012, 09:23:55 AM »
2nd the one piece scope mount.
Personally I've had no luck with the CP scopes on springer/gas ram air rifles. However there are many who use them with no problem at all. I switched to Leaper on my Titan and TF99, so far these have held up wonderfully.
Not sure what all Shadow will do in the tune up but if you still have issues afterwards. There are many great posts on this forum that can help you get this gun shooting tight groups.
Another recommendation is to buy or even make some brass breach washers as the plastic ones wear out just about when the gas ram gets broken in.
Also if you notice the groups opening up after shooting for a while, try cleaning the barrel as the lead pellets can foul the rifling.
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Texas, Rhome
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amb5500c
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Posts: 31628
Real Name: Richard
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #8 on:
October 23, 2012, 11:00:09 AM »
Welcome to the GTA. Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had a problem from a Center Point scope and I own three. All mounted on much heavier hitters than a Nitro Venom.
Richard
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Bullit
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8152
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #9 on:
October 23, 2012, 11:35:52 AM »
Richard, I know you've put them thru their paces!
You mount them well, with the correct mount, so I'll bet you haven't had to adjust yours very far. Mike
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Kentucky
Stylo
Guest
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #10 on:
October 23, 2012, 09:43:10 PM »
Thanks for all the advice. I'll double check when the NV comes back, but I'm pretty sure the scope mounts are reasonably well aligned with the barrel. While breaking it in, I tried two sets of mounts (the too-flimsy included set, plus a heavy-duty two-piece set) and two different scopes. I don't recall having to really crank the elevation adjustment to get the scopes zeroed.
I've read about the brass replacement washers. Has anyone tried machining them out of Delrin? I've got a basic machine shop, so might try running off a pair to see how they work.
Did notice early on how fouling could mess with accuracy. That wasn't the issue unfortunately when the groups really started to open up.
PS Any recommendations for good one-piece scope mounts?
«
Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 10:42:58 PM by Stylo
»
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gamo2hammerli
GTA Moderator
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 6322
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #11 on:
October 24, 2012, 01:41:01 AM »
Most of my package air rifles came with one piece mounts....don't know what brand though. I bought a few aftermarket ones, they were the Gamo 3 bolt ones. About $15.00 and haven't moved on me.
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Bullit
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8152
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #12 on:
October 24, 2012, 01:49:26 AM »
Clean your barrel. Airguns don't foul like PBs, but if there's assembly grease in there, you need to get it out.
Then, with a clean barrel, it can break in properly, and the lead can imbed itself good...give it 1,000 rounds.
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Kentucky
eatsShootsAndSleeps
Guest
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #13 on:
October 24, 2012, 02:20:00 AM »
When you (or Shadow) figure out what the problem was, please let us know. I've been having similar problems.
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mtbdrew
Expert
Posts: 1124
yes
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #14 on:
October 24, 2012, 09:22:47 AM »
I can't remember who exactly but one of the regulars here gave a great analysis on why two piece scope mounts shouldn't be used on springer/gas ram air rifles. I'll try to do honor two his post as I can't find it now. Basically, due to the unique double recoil of these guns, the separated scope rings allows the torque to be transmitted to the scope in two different directions causing torque that can destroy even the best made scopes. A one piece mounting system helps to isolate the scope and though it still undergoes double recoil it isn't subjected to the same torque extremes.
From my own experience, I went through many "air rifle" rated scopes on my Gamo Hunter 220 until ready his post. Since added a one piece mount to this gun I've been able to use a scope on a gun that previously destroyed any and all scopes put on it.
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Texas, Rhome
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Stylo
Guest
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #15 on:
October 24, 2012, 10:35:11 AM »
If anyone can link to that discussion (1-piece vs 2-piece mounts), I'd be grateful. I'm not questioning the voices of experience here -- I'm just curious about the exact mechanics of it all.
Last night I looked at a couple of AG company sites and it seemed there wasn't a lot of choice when it came to one-piece scope mounts for the Weaver/Picatinny base of the NV. I assume there will be much more selection once I get away from AG-specific listings and start looking at PB stuff instead.
KYMike: Thanks for the cleaning advice. In fact, I did a good thorough cleanout of all the factory grease before I ran a single pellet through this last NV. Probably did run somewhere around or close to 1000 pellets through it, too. After several hundred it had settled down nicely and was grouping well. And I did notice that if the groups started opening up, cleaning the bore took care of it. That is, up until it didn't . . . .
I don't want to bug Shadow (I used to do similar work -- not on AGs -- so I know how much time can go into answering customer questions) but I may drop him a note to ask if he could let me know if he finds anything clearly amiss when he gets a look at the seal.
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FuzzyGrub
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 7135
yes
Real Name: John
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #16 on:
October 24, 2012, 03:43:38 PM »
I am rather new at looking at air gun specific scope mounts, but thought the AG specific was having a stop pin, and that is only for dovetail type. I haven't read the for-mentioned article, but would suspect one issue with 2 pc, is that the stop pin only helps one of the mounts.
Weaver/Picatinney mounts have more surface area and the crossbolt helps with locking them in. Never had a scope loosen up on one, but don't have that type on a air gun.
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Rural New York
1701P, 2201P, & 2501 Pistols,
1720T/Prod/Fortitude based( 7 ), Mrods( 5 ), SAM,
Sumatra 25 carbine, 357 Bulldog, Walther CP88 ( 2 ),
Akelas 22 & 25,
ATI Nova Liberty Wood 177 & 22,
P1, A4-P, & DPMS Full-Auto Fun
Bullit
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8152
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #17 on:
October 24, 2012, 06:02:25 PM »
If you already have weaver base, you are good to go.
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Kentucky
Stylo
Guest
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #18 on:
October 24, 2012, 07:03:48 PM »
By good to go, do you mean that you think a one-piece mount isn't so necessary with a Weaver/Picatinny base?
The Nitro Venom base looks to me like a pretty solid (and stiff) bit of metal.
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Bullit
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8152
Re: Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom
«
Reply #19 on:
October 25, 2012, 08:00:48 AM »
Correct... With the Weaver/Picatinny base, the scope rings won't move, so you don't need to add the 1 pc mount. Just good rings (4 screw) to hold the scope.
Mike
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Kentucky
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Newbie with a .177 Nitro Venom