I totally understand jm making his seal for the hatsan 125 and wfh so that they need a break in period obviously he is just making sure no one can say his seal is under sized.
With the N-Forcer Yellow in my WFH, I got 33 fpe with both my .22 and my .25....but the cocking effort involved wound up cracking the forestock on both guns. I am backing off to a Crosman XL gas spring. I may have two N-Forcer 120mm gas springs available soon!Mark
Quote from: Mike 4888blues on April 23, 2012, 05:42:10 PMI totally understand jm making his seal for the hatsan 125 and wfh so that they need a break in period obviously he is just making sure no one can say his seal is under sized.Mike,It also allows for someone who "over-hones" his cylinder too much, too !Dave
Quote from: Smackey54 on April 23, 2012, 03:59:12 PMThe N-Forcers come with instructions on how to pressure and recharge. Releasing gas is easy...only requires an allen wrench, but recharging requires a special adapter....and lots of pressure. ok so just release minutely, a little pressure off will go a long way. moller just sold me there tool for lowering the pressure and I am now exchanging for the yellow.spoke to there in house service teck.
The N-Forcers come with instructions on how to pressure and recharge. Releasing gas is easy...only requires an allen wrench, but recharging requires a special adapter....and lots of pressure.
Quote from: Mike 4888blues on April 23, 2012, 04:27:08 PMQuote from: Smackey54 on April 23, 2012, 03:59:12 PMThe N-Forcers come with instructions on how to pressure and recharge. Releasing gas is easy...only requires an allen wrench, but recharging requires a special adapter....and lots of pressure. ok so just release minutely, a little pressure off will go a long way. moller just sold me there tool for lowering the pressure and I am now exchanging for the yellow.spoke to there in house service teck. Does the enforcer instructions mention to do it under water so you can see the amout of bubble when being discharged for a lower power amount?That's what I would do Mark, so I can see minute release of a few bubbles. it will be a pain i believe cause then you have to install it, to see your results, but its part of getting to know how to deal with the pistons power and adjusting. It will not take much being that is a small cylinder, so minute is the word.if i was doing it i do it slowly under water, where you can see clearly just under the waters surface, and as soon as i got the slightest hit of 2 tiny bubble i stop lol just food for thought
Quote from: Mike 4888blues on April 23, 2012, 08:46:39 PMQuote from: Mike 4888blues on April 23, 2012, 04:27:08 PMQuote from: Smackey54 on April 23, 2012, 03:59:12 PMThe N-Forcers come with instructions on how to pressure and recharge. Releasing gas is easy...only requires an allen wrench, but recharging requires a special adapter....and lots of pressure. ok so just release minutely, a little pressure off will go a long way. moller just sold me there tool for lowering the pressure and I am now exchanging for the yellow.spoke to there in house service teck. Does the enforcer instructions mention to do it under water so you can see the amout of bubble when being discharged for a lower power amount?That's what I would do Mark, so I can see minute release of a few bubbles. it will be a pain i believe cause then you have to install it, to see your results, but its part of getting to know how to deal with the pistons power and adjusting. It will not take much being that is a small cylinder, so minute is the word.if i was doing it i do it slowly under water, where you can see clearly just under the waters surface, and as soon as i got the slightest hit of 2 tiny bubble i stop lol just food for thoughtThe biggest problem is not knowing how much has been released and being unable to do anything about it if it is too much . . .DaveI believe moller would recharge if we need for a small feeI would only let fine fine bubbles out and only a couple and that's it what a pain though to have to install it to test its results and have to keep taking everything apart till your where you want it... I may look into buying the rest of the set up, so I can fill my own and read the fill amounts,and even buy a tank, they have places to buy gases The tool i bought for de gasing was almost 16.00 ah I will play it by ear
Quote from: Smackey54 on April 23, 2012, 03:23:38 PMWith the N-Forcer Yellow in my WFH, I got 33 fpe with both my .22 and my .25....but the cocking effort involved wound up cracking the forestock on both guns. I am backing off to a Crosman XL gas spring. I may have two N-Forcer 120mm gas springs available soon!MarkMark,Is your rifle an SAS / QUATTRO model or is it the earlier version ?Dave
Quote from: Tarheel on April 23, 2012, 08:13:35 PMQuote from: Smackey54 on April 23, 2012, 03:23:38 PMWith the N-Forcer Yellow in my WFH, I got 33 fpe with both my .22 and my .25....but the cocking effort involved wound up cracking the forestock on both guns. I am backing off to a Crosman XL gas spring. I may have two N-Forcer 120mm gas springs available soon!MarkMark,Is your rifle an SAS / QUATTRO model or is it the earlier version ?DaveMy rifle is SAS with the 2nd iteration of the original trigger. Machined parts rather than laminated. I will take a look at reducing the pressure in the N-Forcer Yellow using the water method Mike suggested. But I am in no hurry to go after that as the XL piston is doing pretty well.Mark
Wheels are turning in my head . . .Mark got 33 fpe with an Average Force of 230 lb ( 200 + 260 / 2 ) . . . N-Forcer "Yellow", indicating an "EC" of .35 +/-Moeller "Yellow" with an Average Force of 253.5 lb ( 203 + 304 / 2 ) . . . In the SAME rifle, it might produce 34.7 FPE.With those theoretical numbers, it sounds like the Moeller Yellow will do everything we have hoped that it would, provided that the "balance" of the setup is right.Dave
I lied. I did not get 33 fpe with the N-Forcer Yellow. It was 32. Here is what I got with my .25 with the N-Forcer yellow, JM seal, cylinder hone, debur, and lube:Shot Pellet Grains Velocity FPE1 H&N FTT 20.06 852 32.341938172 20.06 850.5 32.228158353 20.06 851.7 32.319166164 20.06 849.8 32.175129715 20.06 849.4 32.144847246 20.06 851.4 32.296402187 20.06 853.6 32.463524298 20.06 852.7 32.395104039 20.06 851.8 32.3267559410 20.06 852.5 32.37990933 Average 851.54 32.30702437 Min 849.4 32.14484724 Max 853.6 32.46352429 Spread 4.2 0.318677052
Guys,Here is what I got with my .22 WFH with the Crosman XL gas spring...after cylinder hone, JM Seal, Piston polish, debur and lube. Stock with spring was about 980fps....but I did not record a string with stock spring...Shot Pellet Grains Velocity FPE1 CPHP 14.3 941.3 28.14155421 Average 963.08 29.4589111I lied. I did not get 33 fpe with the N-Forcer Yellow. It was 32. Here is what I got with my .25 with the N-Forcer yellow, JM seal, cylinder hone, debur, and lube:Shot Pellet Grains Velocity FPE1 H&N FTT 20.06 852 32.34193817 Average 851.54 32.30702437
Here is what I got with my .22 WFH with the Crosman XL gas spring...after cylinder hone, JM Seal, Piston polish, debur and lube. Stock with spring was about 980fps....but I did not record a string with stock spring...I lied. I did not get 33 fpe with the N-Forcer Yellow. It was 32. Here is what I got with my .25 with the N-Forcer yellow, JM seal, cylinder hone, debur, and lube:
Quote from: Smackey54 on April 24, 2012, 05:10:10 PMHere is what I got with my .22 WFH with the Crosman XL gas spring...after cylinder hone, JM Seal, Piston polish, debur and lube. Stock with spring was about 980fps....but I did not record a string with stock spring...I lied. I did not get 33 fpe with the N-Forcer Yellow. It was 32. Here is what I got with my .25 with the N-Forcer yellow, JM seal, cylinder hone, debur, and lube:Mark,During the time you had the N-Forcer gas ram "Yellow" gas ram installed, did you suffer any parts breakage ( other than the stock ) and did any parts, particularly the SEAR and other TRIGGER parts show any signs of premature or excessive wear ?Thanks !Dave
The sear showed no excessive wear, but while my .25 was cocked, I reached for a pellet, got distracted and the gun slipped from my hand. The shoulder cocking slot of the piston slipped off the sear and the barrel snapped shut so hard that it bent the barrel UP, just forward of the breech block. When I disassembled it, there was no apparent damage to the sear..or the cocking shoulder of the piston.I felt very fortunate that my fingers were not close to the breech, or between the cocking lever and the stock. I am comfortable with the XL piston right now and they are about $30 shipped. If they last half as long as the N-Forcer or Moeller, I will be happy.Mark