I am new to gta and working my way back, reading these threads. Sorry if resurrecting old topic, but RE: krytox v. molly lube. 1. did ray in wi notice any significant improvement after relubing with krytox.2. based on postings by nced i get the impression krytox is now his preferred lube, possibly for every friction surface. did i infer correctly?3. are there any particular areas of the rifle where moly would work better than krytox, i.e. a differential lubing.bill in cincycurrently own: hatsan 95 .22 cal untuned remington express 22 & 177 untuned ( the midway clearance price too tempting!)
Quote from: Bullit on October 13, 2014, 04:50:30 PMThe spring itself won't lose any substantial power at 20 degrees. There was a lot of "marketing hype" a few years ago, by a manufacturer,,,when their new "NP" piston rifles first came out. If you really get serious about setting up your rifle for extreme cold, you can clean the heavy moly tar off of the spring, and use a lighter lubricant. I've seen those ads, works in cold weather and you can leave it cocked forever. I don't see a situation were I would leave the gun cocked for hours. And according to you all the cold shouldn't be an issue either.
The spring itself won't lose any substantial power at 20 degrees. There was a lot of "marketing hype" a few years ago, by a manufacturer,,,when their new "NP" piston rifles first came out. If you really get serious about setting up your rifle for extreme cold, you can clean the heavy moly tar off of the spring, and use a lighter lubricant.
Quote from: Mikeflys on October 13, 2014, 03:54:15 PMI am struggling with the decision on wether to buy a good quality spring rifle, or cough up the money for a pcp setup. I really like the idea of a pcp but the cost of the fill station just about kills the deal. On the springer side I hear all the discussion on springers loosing power in cold weather. How cold does it have to be before the gun is impacted? It gets cold here in Idaho and I dont plan on putting my gun away.....now I'm not crazy, I won't go out in sub 0. Maybe in the 20's. Is that too cold for a spring rifle? I have no comment on PCP shooting but with my .177 R9s I found that temperature VARIATION during the shooting session had more of an effect than the temp itself. When The temp gets toward 20 degrees F I don't go often do outdoor shooting so I also have little input for zero degree shooting and the like.The main temperature induced poi shifting I've experienced was at early spring shooting with the R9 "fitted" with old style factory HW piston seals and lubed with the "traditional" molly bearing tar & paste! I remember one early season field target match in outside Harrisonburg, Virginia where my brother and I did the sight-in during snow flurries, yet the temp rose to the mid 50s during the match. Both my brother and I had a 1" poi shift at only 20 yards during that match and I supposed that the issue was "tar" on the spring, molly paste on the piston seal, and the factory HW parachute seal. Seemed to me that the mineral oil based lubes used was changing viscosity (especially the "tar") and the "rubber" piston seal was changing durometer due to the 25 degree temperature shift during the match. The same issue was also evident for the fall squirrel hunts if the early morning was cold and the temps rose about 25 degrees during the day.Well....I started messing around with ways to minimize the temperature induced poi shifts and at first I simply stripped all lubes from the R9 and re-lubed with only a VERY THIN application of molly paste, nixing the "tar" all together. This did help some so the feeling was that I was on the right track. Then gears in my head started turning some more and I considered ways to minimize the rubber rubbing against the receiver ID. The old style factory R9 piston seal was about 7/16" thick with a rather thin parachute sealing edge so I figured that there was at least 3/8" of lubed rubber sliding in the receiver and this was a lot of surface area to be affected by lube viscosity and rubber durometer changes that would in turn affect the way the piston accelerated/decelerated during the "pressure stroke".It was at that time a couple decades ago that I replaced the factory HW parachute seal with an oring sealed piston cap that used a 1/16" cross section oring to do the sealing rather than a 7/16" wide rubber seal. I lathe cut the oring sealed piston cap and fitted it with a cheap oring from an ACE home center and tested it. This combination "worked a treat" and really minimized (not eliminated) the amount of "temperature induced poi shifting". I've been using an oring sealed piston cap for a couple decades now and found that it indeed provided the least amount of poi shifting, and that includes a couple versions of after market piston seals that I bought and tested.I do have to mention though that HW revised the design of their piston seal to include a thick parachute rounded edge and straight reduced diameter sides (kinda like an oring profile) and I found that the performance of the new design seal was VERY close to that of the oring sealed piston cap I've used for years! Here's a pic of the progression of R9 piston seal design that I've gotten over the years......URL deleted because GTA won't let me post external URL's....apparently even if they are quoted from previous postsAnywhoo.....I have no experience with PCPs, however it seems that they are also affected by temperature changes to some degree. At the field target matches I notice that some PCP shooters have a "tape type thermometer" attached to their air tube and even a different set of "dope" to tell them how many clicks to adjust for different ranges depending on the air temp. LOL.....I know one shooter that even had a Yugo hub cap size sidewheel fitted to his scope focus knob complete with several different range tapes that can be fitted/removed from the sidewheel depending on the readings from his tape thermometer! LOL....it certainly is entertaining to see what shooters go through to deal with temperature shifts!My latest attempt at minimizing "temperature induced poi shifts" was/is nixing the traditional molly filled petro based lubes and instead I'm using non-dieseling Krytox/Ultimox lubes along with the oring sealed piston cap. When I tested out this combo last winter I left the R9 in my unheated sunroom over night when the temp dropped below freezing and then I chronied the pellet velocity from the cold gun. The next day I left the R9 indoors and did another chrony test with the gun at room temp. There was less than a 10 fps difference in velocity and the surprising thing was that the sub freezing (LOL...sub FREEZING, NOT sub ZERO) velocity readings were the higher ones. We don't have many sub zero temps where I live in NC so I have no info on temps that low! Besides, when the temp even gets "20ish" I don't do much outdoor shootin"!
I am struggling with the decision on wether to buy a good quality spring rifle, or cough up the money for a pcp setup. I really like the idea of a pcp but the cost of the fill station just about kills the deal. On the springer side I hear all the discussion on springers loosing power in cold weather. How cold does it have to be before the gun is impacted? It gets cold here in Idaho and I dont plan on putting my gun away.....now I'm not crazy, I won't go out in sub 0. Maybe in the 20's. Is that too cold for a spring rifle?
Quote from: Mikeflys on October 13, 2014, 03:54:15 PMI am struggling with the decision on wether to buy a good quality spring rifle, or cough up the money for a pcp setup. I really like the idea of a pcp but the cost of the fill station just about kills the deal. On the springer side I hear all the discussion on springers loosing power in cold weather. How cold does it have to be before the gun is impacted? It gets cold here in Idaho and I dont plan on putting my gun away.....now I'm not crazy, I won't go out in sub 0. Maybe in the 20's. Is that too cold for a spring rifle? I have no comment on PCP shooting but with my .177 R9s I found that temperature VARIATION during the shooting session had more of an effect than the temp itself. When The temp gets toward 20 degrees F I don't go often do outdoor shooting so I also have little input for zero degree shooting and the like.The main temperature induced poi shifting I've experienced was at early spring shooting with the R9 "fitted" with old style factory HW piston seals and lubed with the "traditional" molly bearing tar & paste! I remember one early season field target match in outside Harrisonburg, Virginia where my brother and I did the sight-in during snow flurries, yet the temp rose to the mid 50s during the match. Both my brother and I had a 1" poi shift at only 20 yards during that match and I supposed that the issue was "tar" on the spring, molly paste on the piston seal, and the factory HW parachute seal. Seemed to me that the mineral oil based lubes used was changing viscosity (especially the "tar") and the "rubber" piston seal was changing durometer due to the 25 degree temperature shift during the match. The same issue was also evident for the fall squirrel hunts if the early morning was cold and the temps rose about 25 degrees during the day.Well....I started messing around with ways to minimize the temperature induced poi shifts and at first I simply stripped all lubes from the R9 and re-lubed with only a VERY THIN application of molly paste, nixing the "tar" all together. This did help some so the feeling was that I was on the right track. Then gears in my head started turning some more and I considered ways to minimize the rubber rubbing against the receiver ID. The old style factory R9 piston seal was about 7/16" thick with a rather thin parachute sealing edge so I figured that there was at least 3/8" of lubed rubber sliding in the receiver and this was a lot of surface area to be affected by lube viscosity and rubber durometer changes that would in turn affect the way the piston accelerated/decelerated during the "pressure stroke".It was at that time a couple decades ago that I replaced the factory HW parachute seal with an oring sealed piston cap that used a 1/16" cross section oring to do the sealing rather than a 7/16" wide rubber seal. I lathe cut the oring sealed piston cap and fitted it with a cheap oring from an ACE home center and tested it. This combination "worked a treat" and really minimized (not eliminated) the amount of "temperature induced poi shifting". I've been using an oring sealed piston cap for a couple decades now and found that it indeed provided the least amount of poi shifting, and that includes a couple versions of after market piston seals that I bought and tested.I do have to mention though that HW revised the design of their piston seal to include a thick parachute rounded edge and straight reduced diameter sides (kinda like an oring profile) and I found that the performance of the new design seal was VERY close to that of the oring sealed piston cap I've used for years! Here's a pic of the progression of R9 piston seal design that I've gotten over the years......Anywhoo.....I have no experience with PCPs, however it seems that they are also affected by temperature changes to some degree. At the field target matches I notice that some PCP shooters have a "tape type thermometer" attached to their air tube and even a different set of "dope" to tell them how many clicks to adjust for different ranges depending on the air temp. LOL.....I know one shooter that even had a Yugo hub cap size sidewheel fitted to his scope focus knob complete with several different range tapes that can be fitted/removed from the sidewheel depending on the readings from his tape thermometer! LOL....it certainly is entertaining to see what shooters go through to deal with temperature shifts!My latest attempt at minimizing "temperature induced poi shifts" was/is nixing the traditional molly filled petro based lubes and instead I'm using non-dieseling Krytox/Ultimox lubes along with the oring sealed piston cap. When I tested out this combo last winter I left the R9 in my unheated sunroom over night when the temp dropped below freezing and then I chronied the pellet velocity from the cold gun. The next day I left the R9 indoors and did another chrony test with the gun at room temp. There was less than a 10 fps difference in velocity and the surprising thing was that the sub freezing (LOL...sub FREEZING, NOT sub ZERO) velocity readings were the higher ones. We don't have many sub zero temps where I live in NC so I have no info on temps that low! Besides, when the temp even gets "20ish" I don't do much outdoor shootin"!