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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Guns And Related Accessories Review Gates => Air Gun Review Gate => Topic started by: gene_sc on August 05, 2011, 12:44:56 AM
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Another new Retay come rollin up to my door today.. Richard I guess decided to ship the Retay Sport underlever for me to evaluate and review. Boy he trusts me...:)
Note: On the Retay Sport Underlever you will need to use a spring compressor.
After opening the box I saw another gorgeous looking air gun by Retay. Fit and finish was just as sweet as the Retay 135X .22 break barrel. On this part one of my evaluation it will be mostly on build quality fit and finish. I will actually give this model a lube tune and send it back to Richard when done along with the other Retay 135X .22 that he sent me to turbo tune for him. Yes he sent me two...:) Guess he is going to keep one fer himself..:)
Here is the scoop. This is another nice designed air rifle. It has two distint build qualities. One is BSA's original Polaris/Gamo CFX and the other is RWS, Air Arms, and HW. The the cocking linkage is cantilever like the Polaris and CFX, but with a RWS shoe. The cocking lever is spring loaded and there is a button on the end you press and release the lever.
The inner and outer pistons are the same design as the HW, Air Arms and RWS. The opening on action for breech and pellet access are full open mouth which is very nice for left and right handed shooters to load pellets. Air Arms use a half mouth breech opening and it is awkward to load pellets. With this said this is a very nice feature. The complete chamber is anodized nicely in red. Very clean and sharp color. The outer piston is of good quality and very smooth. Fits the chamber very well. The breech seal is easily accessible and another nice feature is the piston looks to be a two piece affair. End piece that breech sits in actually screws into end of piston. For your information many of the other air gun manufacturers have had issues with there end piece leaking air. Most are pressed and pinned in. The breech seal is very wide faced which will seal well with barrel breech.
The piston seal on this model of Retay is much smaller than the Retay 135X break barrel. The spring diameter though is much larger. Look at the pictures that I took and you can see the the numbers on calipers. The seal size is somewhere in between an RWS and Gamo/Crosman seal. Looks to be the same size as a HW 97/77 piston seal but a different design. As like on the Retay 135X this one is a parachute style seal as well.
I noticed that the inner piston was not nearly as nicely finished as the piston on a RWS, HW, or Air Arms. They don't have that down pat for sure. But the fit and tolerances were good.
The Retay Sport is a fine well designed air gun. It has some time tested features that have been around and used for decades.
Again this model has a much nicer fit and finish than any Chinese/Spanish gun's that I have seen or worked on. The outer metal work can be compared to an RWS gun made today and IMO a bit nicer.
I will be back with Part Two of my review once I get her back together. I am curious to see the numbers and how accurate she is. Along with the overall cocking and shooting cycle.
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thats a nice gun... kral has realy steped there game up
new guns with a new name to go with them...
the rear site & lever latch are all they have retained from
the old Gamo copys..
If these are there 2nd offering... Roll on the 3rd gen..
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Red anodized?
Yuk...
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I like it , its something different than the gamo and crosmans we see all the time it has some features incorporated in it from several makes of air guns , this may not be a hw or a tx200 but it is a nice offering for a new type gun, as far as the anodizising, quess you want have to worry about that rusting, its looks to be a better build than what we have seen from any of the turkey guns, I just wonder will they have more than just red or maybe some other colors they offer, still in all I like it. Thanks David
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Thanks for your time and efforts with a full inside/out review Bawanah Gene!!!!
Looks like the 100X Sport has room inside to be gassed too. :) With that thick spring guide.
I am looking forward to part two but would like to get info from Richard on the 135X Sniper. But can't get him nor Retay to respond. Guess I keep my money or spend it on more Disco bling instead.
:)
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
8)
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I'm impressed with the overall finish of the shooter and the trigger does have a different design but as you mentioned over the phone it does have a nice feel. I'm a big fan of camo but for some reason I really like the color on the action and a little red bling never hurt's. Ed
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I was over to Gene's yesterday and we were discussing these guns. No doubt it is a very well made gun. ;) ;) The trigger is a Theoben type hybrid and a quite unique design but functions well.. The only real issue we see at this time is parts for it. Seals for example are an odd size, both in diameter as well as cross section. (Gonna take some figurrin' fer that). ??? ??? That said though, unlike many guns when you tear them down, the seals in these two guns were not damaged during assembly. That in itself says something as it's almost unheard of in many mass produced guns.
There are a couple of after market springs that will adapt to it real well including the early Tarantula and the GRT spring (both are excellent springs when set up correctly) and it is a gun that could be TurboTuned with a Delrin guide made for it using them or even the factory spring for that matter. ;D
Anyhow, it's a good gun and feels and handles well also. Personally, I think that it has a pretty good future, especially if they can keep the pricing decent.
Good job Gene
CDT
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They have the camo also Ed....:) Check it out..
(http://retaygun.com/UrunKategorileri/UrunResim/djq10g45fuzdyx45e3n5fdjhtroy100xcamo.jpg)
I'm impressed with the overall finish of the shooter and the trigger does have a different design but as you mentioned over the phone it does have a nice feel. I'm a big fan of camo but for some reason I really like the color on the action and a little red bling never hurt's. Ed
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I knew you would find something like that lol. Ed
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Thanks Gene.
I'm still searching informations of Retay Troy 100x fixed barrel. I'm from Czech Republic and it's easy to buy Retay guns here from dealer in Bohumin(town). Only i needed are informations and piece of knowledge about this brand. I will wait for part two, if your classification will be good, i'll buy one. Thanks one more, have a nice day.
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Crayfish,
This may help. It was labeled as the "Hercules 100X" airgun when it first came out. It is the same Retay 100 though.
This Link is in UK. Scroll down until you see the "Hercules 100X" air rifles.
http://www.the-shooting-party.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=3&Itemid=11 (http://www.the-shooting-party.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=3&Itemid=11)
Good Luck to You.
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Gene,
Ya need to tell Richard and Magy, that RED isn't gonna sell in Kentucky!!!! ;D
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Hey Mike I think the Red ones are only gonna be sold in San Francisco...:)
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Hi Gene,
Thx a lot for your time and reviews and waiting for part II
100X, has different colors as Blue, Red, White and Black and different stocks as you saw on web.
Mike, No problem we sell in vegas ;)
In some country they are in a different brand not Retay.
Have fun
Magy
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Gene & reta,
Is the stock made for left handed shooters too? Can't tell by the pics.
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I think the red is sporty as heck. Gives it a FWB look. Beech or Walnut Wood and bluing get tiresome after awhile.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16297.0;attach=20892;image)
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What I have seen so far of the two model Retays, they only come in right hand stocks. With the cheek weld on right side they fit very nicely.
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Thanks Gene....darn the bad luck!!!
HEY MAGY !!!!!! FIX THIS !!!!!! Make a Riser for the Left Hander Please. Or at least make it ambidextrious.
Mike ;D
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Hi Mike,
I dont want 2 promise or say sth right now but I think after september we're planning to offer as 5 grade turkish walnut stock as ambidextrious one. Cos in plastic its too expensive and takes time but it will done.
Firstly we push the market then can work over it with your bucks ;))
magy
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Magy, It shouldn't be that much money to make the Molds that way. It should only modifying 1/2 of the mold. It's basically a Mirror Image of the left side of the 2 piece mold. I would have engineered it both ways from the start.
It will pay off when more people can buy it. You will sell more synthetic stocks than wood, I believe.
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Hi all,
I'm Hendrick from Europe where this gun seems to trickle in slowly now. In Germany there is also a carbine, 4 inch shorter, version on offer that caught my attention.
Yours is the first techy review I found; excellent stuff Gene !
It seems the scope weaver type block could be lengthened up to the breech port. Some down slope might help in scope mounting.
The action tube is of aluminum, which sets it apart from any German or UK gun of this type.
The issue is how this stands up to the cocking stroke where the steel compression tube (you call outside piston ?) exerts some pressure.
Some other wishes for generation 2 have been expressed:
Some people have asked for the front sight to be hooded, the butt pad to be adjustable and the trigger to be made into two-stage. Someone suggested to take out the right-hand biassed cheek piece dimple to make it full ambi.
Some report a very rough barrel interior.
Gene and others who can tell:
I have a few questions please, before making up my mind:
What exactly are the innovative traits of this rifle you mentioned ?
Does the stock flex and/ or make noises on cocking, possibly ?
Over here buyers found that to be the case, unless stock screws were really tight. The stock is a bit box - like in front of the barrel block and might sound very hollow.
Did you find any reasons for filling the stock out for purpose of sound damping or weighting ?
The system of stock screws was not clear in the pics; how many srews and of I hope these are hex type ?
Also the cheek piece raiser any wobbles in the screw set-up ?
Maybe some additional pics will show all these aspects.
Many thanks for your help,
Hendrick
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Good questions Hendrick! I am interested in this too. Especially the Aluminum usage (type and wall thickness),and the stock's integrity. Will it last?
Thanks for your insights.
Mike
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Hi Hendrick
Yes good questions. The Retay 100 Sport underlever that I reviewed had very clean rifling. I tested it by running a new pellet through the barrel to check the uniformity of the lands. Picture perfect uniformity around the pellet head and skirt. The barrel on first inspection was obviously very dirty with oil and debris. Not unlike many new air guns in this price range. It took a good scrubbing with .177 nylon round bristle brush and goo gone cleaner. The crown was there but I always use my crowning tool to smooth it and polish it.
The sliding breech design is very nice. Retay did a very nice job with this part. It cocks so smooth that the only think you hear is the seer engaging when cocked. Retay also did a great job on the tolerance's of sliding breech block and action or tube. Now of course this was after I had completely tuned her. Enven on my initial cocking and firing prior to tuning it was very nice out of the box cocking and shooting cycle. I might also mention that there was lube inside and was not at all dry.
After over a couple hundred shot there are no lines or scuffing in the open breech that I can see. Still very new and clean.
The scope rail weaver picanany is set just right for my use. I like a 3.5" eye relief scope and actually mounted a Hawke 4-16X44 AO Mil Dot on her. The front of scope objective still sits back and inch from breech. The scope is approximately 13.50" long. I do not see an issue with the length of it.
One thing that I did not mention but did not find out until I was all done with the tune and was testing it. The weaver picanany rail is fastened to the top of action with three screws. On this one the screws were loose. Once I tightened them up I found that there was some dragging on piston when cocking it. That was an easy fix. I took the riser off and trimmed the screws a couple thousandths and re installed them with red lock tite. Since then I have put about 150 shots through it and have rechecke the screws. No problem and scope stays dead on POI.
The adjustable cheek comb is very solid up or down. They used a spring system with two guide pens. The adjuster knob stays set in one position when you adjust combe up or down. The knurled adjusting knob does not go up or down. It stays in position while turning clockwise or counterclockwise.
The stock is very solid. Not cheap like many other synthetic stocks. It does not sound hollow when you shoot the gun. The ergonomics of the stock fit me great and I do not have to move the comb for sight alignment with the scope I am using. I guess it would be a nice option for an adjustable butt pad but I found that it fit me just right the stationary butt pad.
The sights are not high tech but the rear sight does adjust smoothly. I do not use sights so I really did not pay to much attention to them. My concern was the build quality of the gun.
With that said when I was done with the tune I asked Rich if I could buy it...:) That was how happy I was with it features, fit and quality.
IMO Retay has a great gun to offer us. They may have some quality control issues but even RWS does also...:)
I will keep a close eye on wear and any problems that may show up in the future and report back.
Hi all,
I'm Hendrick from Europe where this gun seems to trickle in slowly now. In Germany there is also a carbine, 4 inch shorter, version on offer that caught my attention.
Yours is the first techy review I found; excellent stuff Gene !
It seems the scope weaver type block could be lengthened up to the breech port. Some down slope might help in scope mounting.
The action tube is of aluminum, which sets it apart from any German or UK gun of this type.
The issue is how this stands up to the cocking stroke where the steel compression tube (you call outside piston ?) exerts some pressure.
Some other wishes for generation 2 have been expressed:
Some people have asked for the front sight to be hooded, the butt pad to be adjustable and the trigger to be made into two-stage. Someone suggested to take out the right-hand biassed cheek piece dimple to make it full ambi.
Some report a very rough barrel interior.
Gene and others who can tell:
I have a few questions please, before making up my mind:
What exactly are the innovative traits of this rifle you mentioned ?
Does the stock flex and/ or make noises on cocking, possibly ?
Over here buyers found that to be the case, unless stock screws were really tight. The stock is a bit box - like in front of the barrel block and might sound very hollow.
Did you find any reasons for filling the stock out for purpose of sound damping or weighting ?
The system of stock screws was not clear in the pics; how many srews and of I hope these are hex type ?
Also the cheek piece raiser any wobbles in the screw set-up ?
Maybe some additional pics will show all these aspects.
Many thanks for your help,
Hendrick
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Hi Gene,
Many thanks for your clear explanation.
Your reply raises one new issue on the cheek piece:
How solid is it in the positions BETWEEN up and down extremes ?
How about the stock screws questions I raised ?
Do you think screws are hard steel quality ?
I happen to dislike phillips slot screw heads, like they fitted on the scope rail. Chinese stuff mostly fails in this regard...Maybe Turkish does not all over the gun but only on that rail.
Anyway, on paper I'm surprised by this offerings features: looks good for competition between manufacturers !
As said, I'm after the carbine version.
I hope cocking leverage will be enough for the standard spring...
Some importers here in Europe are discussing future improvements for generation 2 rifles.
One is a hooded front sight. I would like to remove this but it is fixed.
Gene, how could I find out more about your Turbo Tune ? Is it your proprietary thing ?
From your pictures the piston looks difficult to put synthetic bearings on.
We seem to share a few guns between us, TX, HW.
I'm also tempted by HWs new synthetic 97 KT with nickel finish.
This would be my third 97 but I wonder about that finish quality.
Many thanks again,
Hendrick
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The adjustable comb in the lowered position is tight as well as in the full up position. I see no wobble in these positions.
Yes the stock mounting screws are phillips screws and seem to be of good quality. Those could always be replaced by a different screw if one would like. The front screws of course are concealed by the rubber pads.
The cocking on the Retay 100 sport is quite nice. The spring is not so powerful to cause difficulty in cocking. There was no slop or play in the cocking cycle at all.
The spring is basically the same spring as used in the Chinese B-19, most all Gamo's and Crosman 1000 fps rated springers. There is plenty of room to increase the size of spring overall.
If you mean the synthetic seal on end of piston, yes for the normal home tuner it would be difficult to remove and replace. But that is another technique that was handed down to me. With the proper tools removing and replacing seal is not a problem.
Also I might add that the piston can be modified to accept your standard poly seals. One just needs special tooling.
As far as Turbo Tuns goes. This was a specific tune that addressed the spring guides in most springers in addition of many other techiques that CDT developed, and used over the years. Replacing the metal guides with custom fit delring guides for upgraded springs is one. This technique was handed down to me by Bob Werner, aka CDT, who is now retired. He was my mentor for years prior to me opening my tuning business. And now I am retired..:)
Hope I covered everything this time.
Hi Gene,
Many thanks for your clear explanation.
Your reply raises one new issue on the cheek piece:
How solid is it in the positions BETWEEN up and down extremes ?
How about the stock screws questions I raised ?
Do you think screws are hard steel quality ?
I happen to dislike phillips slot screw heads, like they fitted on the scope rail. Chinese stuff mostly fails in this regard...Maybe Turkish does not all over the gun but only on that rail.
Anyway, on paper I'm surprised by this offerings features: looks good for competition between manufacturers !
As said, I'm after the carbine version.
I hope cocking leverage will be enough for the standard spring...
Some importers here in Europe are discussing future improvements for generation 2 rifles.
One is a hooded front sight. I would like to remove this but it is fixed.
Gene, how could I find out more about your Turbo Tune ? Is it your proprietary thing ?
From your pictures the piston looks difficult to put synthetic bearings on.
We seem to share a few guns between us, TX, HW.
I'm also tempted by HWs new synthetic 97 KT with nickel finish.
This would be my third 97 but I wonder about that finish quality.
Many thanks again,
Hendrick
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Hi Gene,
Thanks again.
On the stock screws, I think there are three of them, two underneath the "Nike emblems" and the third in front of the trigger, where the dimple in the stock's belly is ? Am not sure about the 3rd.
Sorry about a new question on removing the action tube end cap:
Does this screw in, like on Weihrauchs ?
Talking about the piston tune, I was thinking about the fitting of additional rear bearings, studs like Jan Kraner does it and like Venom/V-Mach used to do.
This to eliminate any play and wobble between the rear part of the piston and the main tube on the shot cycle, before the piston fully enters the compression (sliding breech) tube.
Hope this will be clear.
Thanks again, Gene and enjoy retirement,
Hendrick
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Newbie to the site, can i ask where you source Retay's here in U.S.?
thanks
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Airscopes..
He is in the GTA Mall
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Thank you very much
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Exellent review Gene. Much appreciated!
Will you be doing any velocity and pellet testing?
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You bet Harry. I have been shooting her ever chance I get. I wanted to wait till she was all broke in...:) Right now she cocks like butter and of course after the tune she is pretty quiet as well.
Tyler and his dad were here a couple weekends ago and Tyler had a chance to shoot her. He was very impressed with the feel of the stock and smoothness of overall cocking and shooting cycle.
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Nice review.
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Hi there,
I am ismet from Turkey. I ve just ordered the Troy 100x (its name here) and on monday I expect to have it in my hands. It costs about 265 TL here in Turkey. With a Red dot sight, gun lube and a pack of pellets. And it is the camo one.
I am a newbie to airguns, this will be my first air rifle. I chose it because of the domestic gun factory and spare parts availability. I hope i like it as you mention in the thread.
The forum's just amazing to read even I have an upcoming important exam.
By the way, do you have any pellet recommendations for this rifle?
Firstly I am supposed to be target training. Maybe hunting when I reach a good dexterity level with the rifle.
Have a nice day!
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where do you get these at?
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no one has an answer for me?
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whats the trigger like? and where do you get the prices??
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Tom, unless you've been gone from GTA for a few months and not read anything, we have been over the Retay deal in several posts. We have been waiting on them to communicate with Richard (airscopes) on the shipment they promised back in October. And now we find another distributor that is also in contact with Retay and GTA. But it is YET to be seen so noone wants to jump out there and answer your question. We are ALL waiting to see how the Retay deal plays out. As soon as something happens, we will most definitely get the word out. Just hold your questions till we get something SOLID to report. They have an outstanding airgun and sure hope they get their ducks in a row and support the US market.
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
8)
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yea, i have been away for a few and didnt know it was such a touchy subject but was curious since a few models have made it into the hands of gta members
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I got the rifle in my hands two weeks ago. When I shot it for the first time I couldn't believe it was that noisy, just like a shot gun! maybe that was for the first time, it never happened agaimn.
The lever was too stiff for me to cock, but by time, i grow airgun lever muscles :D
I zeroed the rifle at home with a homemade pellet trap. Now it performs just right. I get one centimeter groups at 10meters- standing with the rifle on my tired arm :) I am sure it's more accurate on a rest.
Tom, I live in Turkey, where Retay is produced. So it's not a big deal here.But I must say I love that air rifle. Mine is .177 caliber and with pointed crosman hunting pellets, it penetrates 5cm into a book after passing through a target cardboard, after a seagrass basket, a 10cm layer of polyurethane foam and finally 4 cm styrofoam( to prevent ricocheting).
I got used to cocking it. Also mounted a 4x32mm scope which provides great ease of aim.
I feel lucky to be able to have hatsan & retay guns easily in Turkey:)
It's something addictive, I cant keep myself from looking for pellets, and other air rifles :)
After a while I plan to buy a Hatsan PCP model.
I hope you all have the chance to easily buy Retay some day. She's really a nice rifle.
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I have seen a few posts on these and was hoping for the accuracy review and chronograph results. Was there ever a part two to this review on the retay?
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I own this rifle now and I must say, Gene you did a wonderful job with the tune. I also own a HW97K and I can tell you the shot cycle on this Retay is smoother than the HW (untuned as of yet). The Retay is longer by about 3 inches but lighter. A GRT trigger currently sits in the rifle, but with the housing design it sweeps back too far and is awkward. I have the original trigger and once I figure it out I will try it and see how it feels. Did the cheek rest ever adjust on this rifle? I turn the little wheel but haven't gotten it to move at all.