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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => Gamo & Spanish AirGun Gate => Topic started by: jmdavis984 on June 03, 2011, 11:52:15 AM

Title: Norica guns?
Post by: jmdavis984 on June 03, 2011, 11:52:15 AM
I have a nifty little spreadhseet set up that compares ALL of the sub $200 spring powered airguns avaialbe from PA.  As I've been sorting through them decising on good selections, I noticed the Norica name coming up a lot.  Being a cost limited buyer, I paid most of my attention to the Tech Force brand.  However, right there at the same price or within $10 was a Norica brand gun offering the same performance.  Here are some examples:

Break barrel, 15+ FPE, .22
TF89 = $160
Norica Tribal = $150

Underlever, 15+ FPE, .22
TF87 = $190
Norica Quick = $200

Breakbarrel, Plinker, .177
XS-B12 = $65 (TF only offers the TF15 in that class, which seems to be an under-performer)
Norica Model 56  = $80

The only difference I see between the guns listed is that more people are buying the chinese guns than the Spanish guns (at least going by the number of reviews).  Are the Norica gunssub-par?  Are they inferior to the Chinese guns?  Anyone who has an informed opinion of the aforementioned rifles, please let me know what you think of them, or of the Norica brand in general.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: AirScopes on June 03, 2011, 12:49:16 PM
I bought a Norica Storm and own a bunch of TF guns. The Norica is like a cross between TF and Cometa, in that they remind me of TF guns in handling, but look more like Cometas. The Storm is my only Norica, and I think that is because Noricas have been so cheap that it makes it seem like they can't be well-made -- that, and I have so many springers I don't need any more... I made an exception for the Storm.

I have not given that gun its deserved workout, but my impressions are pretty good. Underpriced due to under-representation, I think. My bet is it sells WORSE because of the low price. If they were more expensive, I bet more people would oogle at them...

Richard

Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: Tpatner412 on June 03, 2011, 03:08:11 PM
I have not heard much about Norica. They are an underrepresented brand in my mind. Maybe people have tried them
On here but I haven't read about it. I couldn't tell you if they are better quality than the Chinese guns but they do look pretty sweet. Some of their stock designs are really cool. But that being said with one of the china guns you know what you are going to get in terms of performance because many people on here and else where have used them but with the Norica I'm not sure if I could say the same
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: RedFeather on June 04, 2011, 06:52:58 PM
The Storm was copied by the Chinese.  Can't remember the model.  Everyone has spoken well of the Storm.  PA has finally sold out and no longer lists them.  First the .22 and then the .177.  Too bad, since it was a nice looker, too.  Who knows why it didn't sell?  This sport has a lot of "experts" and I guess they just dissed Norica without checking them out.  FWIW, Norica has been supplying inexpensive but well-built guns for years.  The old Marksman 35, for example.  I have a couple of mid-80's guns and they are both pretty decent.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: bradw on June 08, 2011, 10:54:20 AM
I have a Beeman gt600 which is a Norica I believe ..
Mine shoots well looks good  it is comparable to all the Chinese I have owned..
Brad
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: Bullit on June 09, 2011, 05:16:31 PM
I looked into the Quick a couple years ago.
The biggest slap was that it wasn't "Quick".
Not Powerful....but very accurate and nicely done.  I liked it inhand and the trigger/safety over the Tech Force.
I Didn't know if there were modifications at that time, so I passed and bought another CFX
Hope this helps
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: RedFeather on June 09, 2011, 06:45:56 PM
After revisiting your thread, let me add that people are buying more Chinese guns because they are cheap (both the guns and some of the people.  ;)  )  The Norica's are well made to start with and not sub-par compared to their Chinese copies.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: Bullit on June 10, 2011, 01:56:36 PM
jmdavis984
For what it's worth, there is an offering from Xisco that has my interest.  It's an underlever fixed barrel with wood and is marketed in the sub $200.00 range.
Model #XS46U
Browning is also offering the same A/G with their Logo on it.  It is more expensive of course.
Again, I am interested in this model, and am looking for more info on it.  You may wanna take a look.   Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: Frank on June 10, 2011, 04:58:55 PM
I have two of the Norica Storm, .22 and .177. Both very nice out of box. Way above the chinese guns. Nice triggers and accurate. I have praised them before on the forum. The whole rifle is finished nicely, as good as higher priced rifles.
The Norica Tribal is nice also but has a direct sear trigger where the Storm does not.
If PA does not sell them because they are a slow mover it is to bad for Norica and us that know what a value it is.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: RedFeather on June 10, 2011, 10:43:09 PM
See if Mike still has this one.  It's .177.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1305743564/Xisico+46U+in+-177+tuned (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1305743564/Xisico+46U+in+-177+tuned)

There was also a .22 that did not seem to sell -

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1305293444/F-S+XS-46U+%2C22+CAL+test+fired+only (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1305293444/F-S+XS-46U+%2C22+CAL+test+fired+only)
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: jmdavis984 on June 11, 2011, 08:55:24 PM
I've looked at the 46U, and just don't like the way it looks.  I'm not a big fan of the big plastic barrel ends on that gun, stoeger guns, the Gamo CFX, and the like.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: RedFeather on June 11, 2011, 09:32:46 PM
I share your view.  Too much plastic up front for me, too.  Sadly, that seems to be the direction most are going in these days.  Witness the constructions on the barrels of Gamo's and Cometa's.  Less is more.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: mav72 on June 14, 2011, 04:52:14 PM
Hi, I'm new here... I've been wanting to buy a low power .22 caliber rifle for target practice and back yard rat hunting... I've been looking at the Norica 56 Basic but I can't find much info on it besides on Norica's main site... My main concern is the trigger... How bad is it? From what I've read, Norica had a good trigger and a really bad one but I don't know which one was put in the 56... They say that the Beeman 1040 is a very similar bad Chinese copy of this gun and the trigger is awful... One page says it's a single stage trigger and another would say it's a two-stage trigger. So, I don't know what to think...  Plus, is there a spring out there that would fit int the gun to up the speed just a little bit with a tune? I'm probably asking too much... LOL

I've also been looking at the Daisy 22SG but I don't like the plastic pump lever...

Thanks,
mav
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: jmdavis984 on June 15, 2011, 10:26:54 AM
If you are really sold on 22, I think you will have a hard time finding a decent trigger at that price range.  If .177 is acceptable, then the Air Venturi Bronco is touted as the best trigger on a low-powered gun (again, in the price range).  Sorry, I don't really know about the Norica 56.  You are right, some of them have a good trigger, some of them have a bad trigger.  But, from what I've read, ANY trigger can be "cleaned up" with some deburriing/polishing and lube.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: mav72 on June 15, 2011, 03:39:34 PM
Thanks jmdavis984...

Yes, I'm sold on a .22... I only have one other .22 and promised myself that next purchase I would get one... The reason I want to go with a smaller youth size rifle is because sometimes I need to maneuver in a small space when the rats are out and I'm not good with a pistol. I like the low power (preferably 500 - 650 in .22) because I don't want the pellet going through anything but the rats... The BIGGEST reason I'm interested in the Norica is because I want to try my hand at tuning a springer (safely of course) and at that low price I won't be too afraid of messing with it... I also don't mind cleaning up a bad trigger but the descriptions of the 1040 and the Norica Dragon make the trigger sound horrid, like I'd need two hands to pull it or something... I've found that the spring from a Norica Sport would speed up the 54  but good luck on finding that... LOL I downloaded the exploded parts view and they are basically the same gun with different springs...

Thanks again,
mav

Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: jmdavis984 on June 16, 2011, 10:32:10 AM
Unfortunately, I have fund that a lot of the guys that claim "two fingered trigger" are the same guys that shoot high-dollar airguns and have them professionally tuned to a 1lb trigger pull.  I would pull a number out of the air and say that the norica probably has a trigger pull from 5-8 lbs, which seems to be a typical number for direct-seer, non-polished triggers.  If you have "tuning" in mind anyway, I would say have no fear.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: mav72 on June 16, 2011, 05:28:04 PM
Oh... Ok..  You just sold me on the Norica. LOL

Thanks thanks for the knowledgeable information...  ;D
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: viento on August 12, 2011, 07:24:45 AM
http://www.norica.es/CatalogoNorica2011.pdf (http://www.norica.es/CatalogoNorica2011.pdf)

http://www.norica.es/# (http://www.norica.es/#)
Hello, Greetings from Spain, I would like to clarify the question of Norica.
They are not clones of Chinese weapons, in contrast, the Chinese have copied Norica and because of this copy-to-state Norica factory to close because they can not compete with the working methods of China, we all know .... among other reasons that are affecting all industries in my country and around the world.
In the USA, Norica airguns have been marketed as other brands Hamerli Nova, Razor, Beeman GS 1000 and many other models, until Beeman took his production to China (a few years ago Beeman airguns were made ​​in Spain). I guess it would buy patent
I've seen prices Norica in your country, and truth that are cheaper than in Spain, I guess it will be for open market in USA and ending stocks are down here too the price on some models

En Espaņol , si alguien lo entiende

Hola, saludos desde Espaņa,me gustaria aclarar la cuestion sobre Norica.
No son clones de las armas Chinas, al contrario, los chinos han copiado a Norica y a causa de esta copia la fabrica Norica a estado a punto de cerrar al no poder competir con los metodos de trabajo de China, que todos conocemos....Entre otras razones que estan afectando a todas las industrias de mi pais y de todo el mundo.
En USA, los airguns Norica se han comercializado como otras marcas  Hamerli Nova, Razor, Beeman GS 1000 y muchos mas modelos, hasta que Beeman llevo su produccion a China(hace unos aņos los airguns Beeman eran fabricados en Espaņa).Supongo que compraria la patente
He visto los precios de Norica en su pais, y la verdad que son mas baratos que en Espaņa, supongo que sera para abrir mercado en USA y acabar con las existencias, aqui tambien han bajado su precio en algunos modelos
La fabrica Norica ahora a vuelto a continuar la produccion exclusivamente solo de airguns y no de armas de fuego como escopetas de caza , como hacian antes y ya tienen un nuevo airgun el Marvic2.0 y comentan que van a producir mas cosas nuevas (podrian retirar ese horrible gatillo, jejeje).
Para mi gusto Norica me parece mejor que Gamo y Cometa, aunque en esta ultima se parece bastante en calidad de construccion
Bueno nada mas , espero que lo puedan entender, ya que estoy usando el traductor de Google y la verdad no es muy exacto

Norica The factory now go back to the exclusive production of airguns and not only firearms such as shotguns, as they did before and already have a new airgun the Marvic2.0 and comment that will produce more new things (could withdraw that horrible trigger, lol).
For my taste seems better Norica and Gamo Comet, although the latter is quite similar in quality construction
Well nothing else, I hope you can understand, since I'm using Google translator, and the truth is not very accurate
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: jmdavis984 on August 12, 2011, 09:03:10 AM
Viento -
As always, we really appreciate it when factory reps get involved in user forums in an honest, non-commercial way.  There is no better way to learn how to improve your product than to listen to the insights of your target market.  I, for one, am going to give Norica Air Rifles a fair shake, and likely have at least one in my future.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: RedFeather on August 12, 2011, 01:47:21 PM
Viento - Am I reading your post correctly in that Norica will be closing?  I certainly hope not.  They have been in the business providing good air guns for too long.  Everyone is bemoaning the lower quality of the older air gun makers, yet applauding all of the cheap clones.  If Norica is going out of business due to the copy cats, it is sad.  I have said before that, while these copies might make guns affordable, they are bound to be hurting the companies who designed the guns in the first place.  Beeman's duplicity in having the guns copied in China was the first step down a slippery slope for that once-proud company.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: mav72 on August 12, 2011, 02:07:07 PM
Viento -
As always, we really appreciate it when factory reps get involved in user forums in an honest, non-commercial way.  There is no better way to learn how to improve your product than to listen to the insights of your target market.  I, for one, am going to give Norica Air Rifles a fair shake, and likely have at least one in my future.

Exactly! And Thanks for your reply Viento.... I like to hear directly from company reps on the direction of their company be able to input on what can be improved... I really hope Norica doesn't close...

After buying my Norica 56, I actually want to get another Norica model... Depending on the pellet, the accuracy was spot on.... Mine likes CPHPs and RWS pellets. The trigger wasn't too bad as some people described. (thanks jmdavis984) I liked the fact that it would always "break" in the same place and I'm sure with some polishing I can get it even better... I also can tell the quality is better than a lot of the Chinese guns... I buy and use a lot of quality tools and I CAN tell the quality difference with the metal work and which manufacturing steps were left out to cut costs...

On another forum, I don't remember if it was about Norica or another one of the Spanish air gun manufacturers, a guy was bad mouthing a gun saying that his was a better gun because it was German, only to find out that his gun was the rebranded clone of the gun he was bad mouthing... LOL
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: jmdavis984 on August 12, 2011, 02:09:36 PM
I was REALLY hoping that was an incorrect translation on Google's part.  Viento goes on to say "Norica The factory now go back to the exclusive production of airguns and not only firearms such as shotguns, as they did before and already have a new airgun the Marvic 2.0 and comment that will produce more new things."

Viento, any clarifications you would like to add?
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: mav72 on August 12, 2011, 02:20:55 PM
That's what I was thinking at first... I was thinking that they just closed some extra factories and they just changed the direction of the company...

Hopefully, I'm wrong in the closing and Google translator plus breaking things down to high scool Spanish 1 levels confused me.... lol

Because I really like the quality and traditional look & feel of the Norica guns...
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: Bullit on August 13, 2011, 10:47:05 AM
I didn't read it that way.
The last paragraph by Viento:

Norica The factory now go back to the exclusive production of airguns and not only firearms such as shotguns, as they did before and already have a new airgun the Marvic2.0 and comment that will produce more new things (could withdraw that horrible trigger, lol)
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: dukemeister on August 14, 2011, 12:04:15 AM
Viento - Am I reading your post correctly in that Norica will be closing?  I certainly hope not. 
I think the proper translation is that Norica was "close to closing", or similar.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: mav72 on August 14, 2011, 03:53:31 AM
I asked my brother's girlfriend to translate since she's fluent in Spanish and you guys are correct.... They almost closed or were close to closing... So that's very good news....
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: RedFeather on August 15, 2011, 01:22:37 AM
Actually, I read that as still bad news.  When a long established air gun company contemplates pulling the plug, it's a bad sign of things going wrong in the air gun world.  This thread has made me stop and reconsider do I want to be part of the forces shoving companies like Norica over the economic cliff?  Just consider how many Chinese copies of Norica's best selling gun, the one the current Storm is based on, have been sold world-wide.  Heck, we even had guys thinking the Storm was the copy and the Chinese gun (AR1000?) the original!  Ditto for all of those Crosman Gamo S1000 clones or BAM Diana/HW ripoffs.  And, yes, they are ripoffs.  Consider this - would you buy a Chinese copy of a Remington 700 or Winchester 94?  How about a Chinese Ruger Blackhawk - the revolver, not the air gun?  I think that would make a lot of Chinese copy owners more than a little uncomfortable.  Chinese Harley Sportster anyone?  Ouch!  At least, I'm rethinking the guns I want to get/keep.  Yes, the price is attractive but I can afford to pay the difference.  Ask yourself how many original Chinese designs are currently available?  Tech Force?  Isn't it about time they put some of that huge influx of capital into a little of their own R&D?  Didn't mean to go there with the reply but that's how this thread struck me.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: Bullit on August 15, 2011, 04:09:16 PM
Redfeather,  I'm with You on That One...
Some years ago, I went shopping for something powerful, I wanted to look at a TF99, when the importer was first touting them.  I went there, tried it, didn't like it at all.
Then I tried an "old version" Gamo S1K.  Then, I tried a TF  copy of it.   I came home with  a S1K, and also a Silver Shadow.
 I personally think that Chinese Labor/Marketing, has "Forced" companies like Gamo to cheapen products, and worry more about eye appeal, rather than development of product lines... which is just a shame.
If this hadn't have happened, I feel the Spanish makers could have had a chance to evolve nicely, as they were, before the "World Market" agenda got it's ugly claws into the Beancounters.
I rank the over-ambitious, self serving statistical Beancounters, and CFOs, right down there with Ambulance Chasers, and Divorce Lawyers. Nuff said...

I feel bad for folks when they bash GAMO, or the other companies, when they didn't get the oportunity to see what they were.  They're obviously just re-girjitating other opinions, that I feel it shows their lack of knowledge of these brands, and the "Good Ones" that were made by these companies.  Now...Sorrowfully, Nuff said.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: RedFeather on August 15, 2011, 04:54:03 PM
Kymike, I've been called many things but never a lawyer.  Retired CPA here.  "Beancounter".  Really dislike that expression.  More often than not it's the top executives (Beancounters don't make that much money) and Marketing Wizzards who are responsible for the decline in quality and product performance.  The real "Beancounters" are the individuals counting their personal beans and deciding they would rather have the economy clones over the originals.  Consider the two Crosman springer offerings - Remington (made in USA, at least most of it) and the Benjamins (made in China).  Almost the same gun but big price difference.  Everyone touted Crosman as bringing the business back to the US when the Nitros first debuted, then ran out to WalMart for a Titan GP.  Yeah, Crosman, keep up the good work making 'em in the USA but I'm buying Chinese, thank you all the same.  Do as I say and not as I do mentality?  Not flaming anyone.  Just don't go bemoaning the decline in quality of Diana or HW or Gamo, etc, when you've been buying the copies.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: Bullit on August 15, 2011, 06:01:03 PM
Were you an over-ambitious, self serving corporate statistical Beancounter or CFO? My post was concerning the coprorate level of course.  I may have explained that.  I didn't mention anything about the general population of CPAs.  There was no intent your way.
You're exactly right, as I posted, that the marriage between cheap Chinese Labor & Corporate Marketing, ("Chinese Labor/Marketing"), forced hands.

I haven't, don't, and won't own a Chinese Clone.  I went, I saw, I didn't like...as I posted.
 I DON'T GO TO WALMART.  This is something I wish more would do, but it's their choice.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: mav72 on August 16, 2011, 01:32:21 AM
So, is there a list of originals...? I'm 4 months new to spring powered air rifles and no nothing about PCPs yet... (but I know PCPs have clones also) Even before I bought my first spring rifle I was trying to make sense of that Chinese clone list and which were the originals, weather it be Norica, Diana, Cometa, Weihrauch, Daystate, etc. I'm sure there are holes in that list also... Another question, which Chinese air rifles aren't clones or which rifles are clones of Chinese guns? I try to do my research before I buy.. I found out that W*lmart Beeman was actually a Cometa clone... So I lost the WANT to buy it...

Anyway, my next spring rifle IS going to be another Norica if it doesn't sell out before I scrounge up the money... I really want a Remington NPSS also but that's getting into Diana affordability and I'd probably be confused on what I'd want to get...
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: SAADE on August 16, 2011, 02:23:51 PM
I'm a golfer as well as an AG "nut". During a trip to China a few years back, one of the (many) street vendors was selling "Taylormade R10 Drivers" for $42 U.S. equivalent. That was a $340 Driver in the U.S. back then! (not that it was worth $340, it's about $60 of materials and $45 of labor and packaging and lot's of profit)

Anyway...there is NO restriction on this type of theft in China except fo Chi-com lip service. Cos. like Disney have whole legions of attorneys in Asia chasing down these folks but with littlle result other than scaring them away for awhile.

Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: RedFeather on August 16, 2011, 08:16:12 PM
Saade, I saw in interview with a sales rep for Caterpillar back when they were just letting western companies into mainland China.  He said that the Chinese wanted to buy three earth movers, four front end loaders, three graders, etc, etc.  Didn't take him long to figure out that they wanted a minimum number in order to disassemble, measure the parts, do an average and then start copying.  As a result, Caterpillar said "no" and declined entry into their market.  The interview also went on to say that Caterpillar had suffered loss of reputation due to counterfeit replacement parts.  They look the same, right down to the packaging, but they are not the same.  When a piece of heavy equipment breaks down and holds up work on a large building site for days and day, it costs thousands of dollars.  Caterpillar gets the call and an earful.  Happens in the auto industry, too.  And there is no such thing as in international patent.  Look it up.  You must file for each country you plan to do business in.  In China the processing time is supposed to be about six months but usually drags into twelve.  In the meantime, the copycats are busy breeding as cats do - quickly!  Now you have to pursue them in court and - here's the kicker - court in that same country.  Currently, the Chinese patent courts take forever with iffy results, so much so that it's not worth pursuing.  Do you think Diana actually LIKES that Ruger is selling an Air Hawk copy of a model 34, right down to the T05 trigger?  How about the 350 (BAM28)?  You court the girl, romance her, take her out to a fancy dinner, buy here a big diamond ring and I'll hop into bed for the honeymoon, thanks pal!  Not to be critical (although I did just do several hours of hot yard work and quaffed a couple so expect the blood pressure to be up and the good sense down), but them's the rules for international trade these days.  And don't believe me.  Feel free to look it up.  This was per the US Embassy's advice to companies considering business in China.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: Karl der Grosse on August 17, 2011, 12:09:01 PM
I bought a Norica Storm about 6 mo. ago.  No regrets.  At the time, I had boiled it down to it and a TF.  So if given the chance I'd like to try a TF.

My other springer is an older Norinco TS45.
Title: Re: Norica guns?
Post by: Bullit on August 18, 2011, 04:46:34 PM
It has happened in the Material Handling, Industrial Equipment, Automotive Industries for years.  Reverse Engineering by the Japanese proved to be an engine for the start of a downturn to the US Auto Sales Industry. (remembering the 70s here). Just too d@mn bad that they did put out a good product...But it did (eventually), make our manufacturers re-think their product offerings.