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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Bryan Heimann on March 11, 2012, 10:14:43 AM

Title: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Bryan Heimann on March 11, 2012, 10:14:43 AM
In your experience, what was the smoothest, easiest-to-shoot break barrel in the 18+ fpe power class that you've ever had the pleasure to shoot?
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Mark 611 on March 11, 2012, 11:59:52 AM
well thiers a few out there that shoot nicely in that power range the RWS48 comes to mind a Beeman R1, and believe it or not the Gamo Hunter Extreme I just got in .22cal seems to shoot just about as smooth as those 2 and its shooting a 14.3gr CPHP at over 900fps out of the box and is very accurate! :P
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: grumpy on March 11, 2012, 12:37:20 PM
Not quite 18 fpe but the .177 nitro venom I have shoots at just about 16 fpe very smoothly.

Grumpy
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Tom @ Buzzard Bluff on March 11, 2012, 01:27:47 PM
In your experience, what was the smoothest, easiest-to-shoot break barrel in the 18+ fpe power class that you've ever had the pleasure to shoot?

 How 'bout we take a short stroll down Reality Lane together?

'Smooth' & 'easy to shoot' are out of place in a sentence concerning an 18fpe break-barrel springer. While a good tuner can virtually transform such a rifle he can't totally overcome the reality that there are a lot of heavy parts engaged in sudden, violent activity inside the compression tube when the trigger releases.

 While not a break-barrel the RWS/Diana M-54 comes nearest the mark. In addition to the sledge system it possesses the other characteristic most needed to calm down excess power---pure mass.       Tom
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: VAFarmer on March 11, 2012, 02:50:42 PM
On another forum, there is a guy named Chris,  the business is CAP I think.

This guy gets good power and shootability (reportedly) from big power springers.   

I wouldnt say it is a cheap thing to accomplish, though.

God bless,

Farmer
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Charles Outdoors on March 11, 2012, 03:09:00 PM
18fpe is right on the lower end of the magnums and only needs a 14.3 grain pellet pushing 754 fps. Some people claim to get that in there Benji Trail, but I've only seen about 730ish in mine.  I have a tf89 and a Winchester 850XS that will hit 760 fps with 14.3 grain pellets. I'm sure there are some gas ram guns shooting in the 760's that would be smooth shooters out of the box without being tuned. There are several non-magnum spring guns that could be tuned to be smooth in that range. Most magnums will be 20+ fpe.   
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: rsterne on March 11, 2012, 03:09:22 PM
Quote
How 'bout we take a short stroll down Reality Lane together?
I just about sprayed my coffee all over the screen when I read that.... because it's actually pretty true, just never seen it put so succinctly before.... However, since it's all relative, you should be looking at the heaviest and best quality rifle you can find to deliver what you want.... The problem, IMO, is that the sheer weight must be taken into account in the "easiest shooting" part of your equation as well....

Bob
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Nathan on March 11, 2012, 03:25:26 PM
My RX-1 is very easy to shoot accurately and the Theoben gas ram is just a quick snap.

Nathan
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: tjk on March 11, 2012, 03:27:27 PM
18 to 21 fpe is a sweet power setting for the HW90/RX series piston rifles. The 'reality lane' post is pretty much spot on as far as I'm concerned. With controllable magnum power, one  must pay a price. With piston guns, big power equals big guns for the most part.
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Mark 611 on March 11, 2012, 03:29:42 PM
Bob your right their is allot of recoil to take into prospective here even tho it's not all that bad with a quality gun, magnum class springer's are not easily shot without some trigger time! :P
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: barcabarca on March 11, 2012, 05:05:44 PM
It depends on how you define "smooth" and "easy" ::)

No 18+fpe springer that I have is as easy as my R8 ( 8 ish FPE)
No 18 + fpe springer that I have is as smooth as my 12 fpe stock HW 97..

OTTH, my Diana 48 (23 FPE w ZRT kit)and 54 (24 FPE-stock)  are both very easy to shoot for the amount of power that they generate. 

They both have no torque and the 48 has a sharp, short,  backward pulse.  They can both be a little bit hold sensitive, but once you got it, they shoot consistently and easily to 50, and 75 yards and put some decent groups even at 100 yards.  they both respond well to a light hold.

My Diana 350 and Diana 460 both in .22 shot at around 25 and 26+ FPE, but they both were more difficult to shoot until lube tuned and Vortek Tuned em.. Their overall length, the long stroke of the piston for the 350,  made them difficult to control for me.

someone else on this thread put is best when they said that its not "real" to have a very smooth and easy to shoot higher FPE air rifle, but dont be scared off, these rifles can be very shootable and enjoyable.





Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Charles Outdoors on March 11, 2012, 05:09:09 PM
Bahhh... just keep it in @ 18 FPE and forget the magnums if smoother and easier is what you want. There is a lot of guns that can chunk a .22 CPHP a little over 750 fps producing 18 FPE without jumping into the heavier and harder cocking magnums. 
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: z28rod on March 11, 2012, 05:31:12 PM
The new or refurb. Titain GP'S  in .22 cal. shoot 14.3 gr. CPHP pellets at 720 to 740 fps, sounds like a perfect fit and you get the new tech. gas piston technology to boot.
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: RedFeather on March 11, 2012, 07:35:15 PM
My RX is pretty easy to shoot and has a very short, snappy shot cycle (more so than the NPSS I just got).  That said, eat your Wheaties when you go to cock it.  It's not one of those fifty rounds at a sitting type of guns.  That Crosman NPSS, on the other hand, cocks with about the same force as a Gamo Shadow 1000.  In fact, it's easier than my stock Diana 34.  I was quite surprised but the power seems to be right up there.  The 48/52/54 are good shooting guns but take a bit of oomph when cocking.  Of course, these are true magnums.  What comes out must first go in.
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Bryan Heimann on March 11, 2012, 08:07:22 PM
Thanks for the input, and keep the opinions coming!  I've had a little experience with some ultra-mags, a .25 WTM, a .177 R.A.M. and a .177 XL1500, none of them seemed as hard to shoot as I'd been led to believe except for the XL1500.  Not as hard to cock, either.  I'd run through a couple tins of .25 Kodiaks in a weekend when I still had the WTM.  Awesome power, could sometimes knock a empty water bottle over my wooden fence that's taller than I am.  That's quite a wallop, and IMHO, not too extremely hard to shoot.  The most hold sensitive gun I've ever shot was the XL 1500, but once I had her figured out it was superbly accurate untill I started having lock-up issues.  I eventually returned it, but had I known what I know know I'd have kept it and fixed it.  It could hit the center of the bottom of a coke can at 70 yards consistently, with just a mil dot and a half holdover and 10.5 grn CPUM's when fired from sitting with my elbow supported on my knee.  But it was EXCESSIVELY hold sensitive, which didn't make it a great field gun.  The lockup issue became a deal-breaker.  Should have experimented with that, I've got some great ideas for the XL- but i sold the rest shortly after anyway.  That's another story altogether.  What I'd like to find is a breakbarrel in .22 that, zeroed with just the right off-hand hold, can still keep all shots inside an inch at 30 without regards to hold as long as it's shot off-hand and with proper follow -through- all that with power closing in on 20 FPE.  The WTM seemed to put 5 in 2" @ 30M even with complete disregard to hold and good follow-through, but with the right hold it would give me more like an inch to an inch and a quarter @ 30 with kodiaks (and kodiaks only!).  It also shot the 43 grn eunjins well, but the trajectory was not so great.  Pretty good for a $200 ultra-mag springer.  I don't have any of those gunsanymore.  Currently, I have an X20S with a Tarantula and an Apex seal that reached 16.36 fpe with Kodiaks during break-in.  It was still very easy to shoot, no problem putting 5 into 1" at 30 even with inconsistent technique.  I though it was broke in and about as powerful as she'd get, but lately it seems snappier and seems to smack targets a little harder than before.  It's more hold sensitive as well, but not too bad.  Unfortunately i shot my chrony, so I've no idea what kind of power I'm getting now!!  But, I digress.  Keep the opinions coming!! 
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on March 11, 2012, 08:49:43 PM
I find my Nitro Venom .22 very easy to cock and an absolute plesure to shoot, the quick cycling nitro piston feels very, very nice on the shoulder, I think the Nitro Venom is around 18 FPE right ? ( please correct me if I'm mistaken )

when I sit down and shoot it for awhile I can get real tight groups at 35 yards
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Bryan Heimann on March 11, 2012, 09:37:12 PM
The medium-high powered Crosman/Benjamin breakbarrels typically put out about 14-15 fpe in .22.  You get the odd gun that's up between 17 and 18, but it's uncommon- even with a tune.  I think that's a combination of a slightly overly charged nitro piston (bad QC sometimes has it's advantages i guess) in conjunction with a properly fitting piston seal that didn't get nicked and maybe a slightly out-of spec tube that's fractions of a MM larger in diameter than it should be.  That's just a hunch, though.  The difference between 15 and 18 fpe might not sound like much, but it is definitely noticeable.
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: robert w on March 11, 2012, 09:40:46 PM
im a german gun lover ,but i realy like my benji titan gp in .22 smooth cocking and shoots in the 740-760 range cphp's and rws superdomed are what it digests best . for the money id say go with a benji titan the nitro piston has some advantages like being able to leave it cocked for while without hurting it
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Bryan Heimann on March 11, 2012, 09:55:57 PM
BTW-  I'm really not too interested in the odd medium springer that shoots a little harder than it should.  Not unless it's with a tune kit for which these results are typical.  Like a 34 with a special kit that closes in on 20 fpe (does that exist?)  When I say 18+ fpe what I mean is guns that shoot that hard, out of the box, across the board unless defective- or a tune kit that takes a 13-16 fpe gun above 18 fpe on average.  I know they're all harsh, but you can't deny that some are better than others!
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Onebaddj on March 11, 2012, 11:51:33 PM
Vorteked RWS350 in 22 cal. Its. A 23 fpe gun but is pinpoint accurate. The 177 350 puts out right at 18 and is pinpoint also. Both take a little practice but once you figure them out they are awesome.
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Lambchops on March 11, 2012, 11:58:07 PM
IMO, my Stoeger X20s .22. Granted, it's not 18 fpe, but only 14. It does shoot very smooth and is very quiet.
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: tracka on March 14, 2012, 09:40:22 PM
Remington 22NPSS is the hardest hitting, easiest cocking, most accurate and quietest  air gun I've EVER shot!  Thing is, it's the ONLY one I've ever shot.  Tracka
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Escondido1 on March 14, 2012, 09:51:51 PM
I'll break your rules....not a breakbarrel....but the 48 of all my tuned guns in that power range is the smoothest easiest and most accurate.......

But if I had to do it all again....I'd just buy an HW 30s 177.

Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Bryan Heimann on March 15, 2012, 02:25:14 AM
That vortek'd 34 sounds just right!
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on March 15, 2012, 03:00:26 AM
So the 34 is an 18 FPE gun ?

I would swear the Nitro Venom definatly shoots harder, very definatly smoother and easier to cock :)


I have a Vortek kit for my 34 but haven't installed it yet
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Bryan Heimann on March 15, 2012, 03:16:22 AM
I think 34's typically put out around 15-16 fpe, in .22, untuned.  I'm still *(&^-bent on squeezing 18 fpe out of my X20 Suppressor!  The Tarantula didn't get me there, but maybe a 180 bar ram will =D   
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Onebaddj on March 15, 2012, 08:40:28 AM
You would be hard pressed to get 18 fpe out of a 34. I also have a 350 feuer pro compact that will put out over 19 fpe shoots very smooth and its bone stock. I think for this the 350/b28/ram would ne the way to go.
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Mark 611 on March 15, 2012, 11:57:10 AM
they only way you gonna get those kinda #'s is with a bigger power plant gun Like a RWS 48 or other gun in that class! JMO :P
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Bryan Heimann on March 15, 2012, 03:34:10 PM
Mark, I have to agree with you there.  I think a 180 bar gas ram will get me there or slightly beyond with my B19, but I don't think it would make it through a full tin of pellets before the cocking linkage wears out.  Maybe a B22 can handle it (Super Streak/X50/Trail XL) because they are built to handle a little higher cocking force, but not this gun.  And JJ, I have to agree with you about the 350 and it's clones as well.  Instead of trying to tune my X20 beyond what it's made to handle, I probably ought to be happy getting 16 smooth fpe with heavy pellets.  I guess I should start out with a true ultra-magnum and de-tune it to around 20 FPE-  or maybe max it out instead =D  I've got the worst case of magnum-itis I've ever had.  I have probably done my best work ever on this X20S, plus invested over $100 on a nice scope/laser/flashlight setup and I'm about ready to trade it all at a loss for one of those budget magnums.  Might even save up and get something nice- I finally broke down and started buying premium pellets and I don't think I'll ever go back!  JSB 18.13's and  Kodiaks are worth every penny!
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on March 15, 2012, 04:26:58 PM
I belive that's your best bet, get a higher power gun and tune her down to where you want her,...I would say Hatsans with the SAS are the best candidates for your project
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Dick Tracey on March 15, 2012, 04:33:24 PM
I think your stoger X-10 is a good prospect for this discussion.  I don't know how it was stock but your tune worked wonders on it.  Smooth cocking dosn't require much effert, and doesn't seem to be hold sensitive.  Of course the trigger really makes that gun.  I do like my nitro venum, Benji titan, and Ruger air elite.  I haven't had much troubles with these rifles but I haven't shot any of the fine high dollar guns out there.  Oh, I also like my Beeman dual caliber Nickel finish RS 3. I think I will have to do an inventory of my arsonal to really see what I have.
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: VAFarmer on March 15, 2012, 05:01:12 PM
The 34/blackhawk/b-25 series is good for 16 fpe with the right pellets, and with a Vortek, might be good to 17--don't know for sure about the kit adding that much, but no reason to doubt the claims.

Still, they are very manageable to shoot.   A little too long, IMO.  But just have the bbl cut down if you don't like it.
I will go out on a limb though and say........seems like the 34's I hear being touted over 16 ft lbs have the 12 land bbl versus the 8.  Those choked bbls seem to slow velocity down a little, but the 8land also seems to shoot a WIDER variety of pellets more accurately.

I would say very unlikely to getting a 34/b25/blackhawk to 18ftlbs....and if you did, you better have good fillings in your teeth, cause its gonna shakem loose.
But a smooth shooting 16ftlb vortek'd 34/b-25.blackhawk will come in at 8lbs with a decent, lightweight scope.  Tin of pellets, rangefinder, Little Debbie Cake and water will have you around 10-11 lbs.
And shouldnt take you past 300 with a 34, probably 210-220 b-25, AGD refurb blackhawk might take you to 160, but blackhawks will be harder pressed to get withing range of that energy, cause they are .177.

God bless,

Farmer

P.S. sorry didnt see your post about the x20....if you are doing 16 fpe....be happy.  Too close to 18 to warrant spending the money if you ask me.  Does it have a good trigger?  What's it weigh?
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: woody67 on March 15, 2012, 05:54:58 PM
I'd say the Benjamin Trail NP XL...

It's a bit heavy to cock, but only if you're really used to the ones that take zero effort to bend down.

The power is phenomenol, but you'll probably end up closer to 25 or 28 FPE. The accuracy on the XL is insanely impressive.

My choice for a breakbarrel hands down.
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Wild Onion on March 15, 2012, 06:01:24 PM
My NP XL is hold sensitive, but with lots of power. At 30 yds I like the RWS 48, and a few others on this post do also.
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Bryan Heimann on March 15, 2012, 06:23:40 PM
I belive that's your best bet, get a higher power gun and tune her down to where you want her,...I would say Hatsans with the SAS are the best candidates for your project

I think so.  Unlike the 350 and it's clones, it'd be easy to install a gas ram in a nice WTM/WFH.  And the cocking linkage in those guns is rock solid, comes with a nice trigger, and a rock solid lockup with no plastic washers.  The XL's are awesome, and they look really nice, but I'd be looking at $300 plus brass washers and a GRT-III just to get started.  Not to mention, I happen to have a maccarri apex piston seal for a WTM just laying around...
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: woody67 on March 15, 2012, 07:35:49 PM
I actually just posted my NP XL for sale.
It's in PERFECT condition. It has the GRT III trigger already installed and comes with the original stock trigger as well.

The barrel has been cleaned perfectly. There is no dieseling at all from it. It is perfectly broken in and shoots consistently inside a dime at 30+ yards.  All in all, about 200 shots have been fired through. It didn't require much break in period, but that is because I cleaned it very well as soon as it was delivered to my from PyramydAir.

I'm selling it delivered for $210, not including the scope. (That's mostly to cut down on my shipping costs since most people have good scopes already).
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: Lambchops on March 16, 2012, 04:22:27 AM
Guys you only need 760 fps in for a .22 cphp 14.3gr pellet to hit 18FPE.
Title: Re: Smoothest/ easiest shooting breakbarrel in the 18+ fpe class
Post by: blind dog on November 16, 2012, 03:15:19 PM
Resurrection.


So the 34 is an 18 FPE gun ?

I would swear the Nitro Venom definatly shoots harder, very definatly smoother and easier to cock :)


I have a Vortek kit for my 34 but haven't installed it yet
Out of the box, with moderately heavy pellets, mine sure is. After break-in, no dieseling = consistently right at 18 with JSB Heavy 18.13 grains. About 17.2 fpe muzzle with14.3 gr CPHPs
Smooth and not very hold sensitive. I love it. However, mine may be a little more powerful than average and that's the way it goes sometimes. I've seen these chronied at 650-660 fps with 14.3 grainers, mine and some others do better. I don't know why, but I'm glad.
(yes, 2 different chronies set up properly out doors. Month after month, the same results.)