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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => American/U.S. Air Gun Gates => Crosman-Benjamin Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Madkoifish on April 14, 2011, 05:04:23 AM

Title: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 14, 2011, 05:04:23 AM
Ok, I almost wet home with a pc77 from wallyworld all black stocks. I was not to sure if it would take all the 1377 stuff out there. But PyramydAir lists the 1377c and pc77 as the same thing. I see some posting this pc77 is different and read the opposite that all features are now in all new 1377c Even the one I looked at at Big5 had the plastic plates and hex bolts. SO what is the truth here? If I got this gun would I be able to add a long break/shroud, longer barrel for the break/shroud. Any of the steel or stainless breeches? I am attracted to the wallyworld gun due to the black stocks, even if temp they would tie in with any changes later on and well I avoid dealing with shipping at my location.

Now the other reason for this post is WHO sells barrels and have them stocked for sale? I have looked at a lot of sites and almost all are sold out "no longer stocked" "out of business"

Plan is to possibly go flat head replace the breech and carbine the thing through a wire or a shouldered stock. Looking for a rebuild-able gun and "toy" for plinking and small pest removal with stealth. My Trail NP is great but a bit bulky for that quick pot shot. And quite tiring after a long day of plinking. Everyone gets the wobbles from it.  I am also looking for a "guest" gun since apparently I am the only one who can shoot my hb17 and hit anything.

Since I am looking for a quiet gun do the breaks/shrouds help any at all in this regard? Protecting the crown though is enough of a incentive to get one.

I would like to control sound as much as possible. Since I plan to use this indoors, mostly in a basement so lots of reflected sound from hard surfaces. As well as not to annoy the *(&^ out of the neighbors. but anything that helps improve accuracy, well "consistency" would be great barring the shooter of course.
Something like the below links is what I am thinking of. I am not to much in for looks but a uniform bild would be nice. Not into getting exotic wood grips annoed rainbow parts etc. Have to admit though the wirestocks with extended barrels do look nice.

http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods5/tactical006.jpg (http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods5/tactical006.jpg)
http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods5/IMG_0246.jpg (http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods5/IMG_0246.jpg)
http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods3/1193793376.jpg (http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods3/1193793376.jpg)
http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods4/P1000593.JPG (http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods4/P1000593.JPG)
http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods5/MHfullright2.jpg (http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods5/MHfullright2.jpg)
http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods4/Pair%20Right.jpg (http://airgunartisans.com/images/BestMods4/Pair%20Right.jpg)

Some of these I know I cannot get the parts since the guys who made them are no longer selling.
I would likely mount a red dot or a low power scope to it. (bad eyes)
I still have some google results to thumb through and a few more blogs to read but I figured I will tap the knowledge here as well!

Thanks for the time.
MKF-
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 14, 2011, 06:24:02 AM
Found this info
Quote
1389-010 forearm assembly.................... 9.50
1389-022 Stock 1389............................ 12.50
1760-001 1760 barrel............................ 16.75
781a012 2289 band screw...................... 1.20
788b011 2289 band (polymer)................. 1.85
A&B-01 Cut & Crown barrel 1760&2260..... 5.00 *now 8$*
Only issue I have is that barrel it looks to make the whole thing some 40" or so. Is it 24"? and what sizes are there. Also forgot to ask what order should one go about doing things. It looks like people go for the flattop bits and internals or breech first. Then move on to the barrel stocks etc.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Rescue35 on April 14, 2011, 07:28:09 AM
Use the PC77.

http://www.network54.com/Realm/CFTech/partnumbers.htm (http://www.network54.com/Realm/CFTech/partnumbers.htm)

http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php?topic=1884.0 (http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php?topic=1884.0)
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: JMJ in NC on April 14, 2011, 10:22:06 AM
As far as I know, the 1377c American Classic has essentially been replaced by the PC77 Pumpmaster Classic. The PC77 has a few improved features, but also some cost-cutting features as well.

The PC77b is the black version of the PC77, nothing more as far as I have read.

Join the Crosman Pistol Forum as there is a LOT of great modding info over there.

To answer your questions:

Crosman sells the 24" barrel - you have to order over the phone. I just bought a .177 barrel for mine, along with a few other upgraded parts - Crosman steel breech, plastic barrel band, 2289 pump arm, 1399 rear stock, Mellon bolt, FT piston & valve.

I'm sticking with basic black - the 2289 fore-grip is actually green and I painted mine with satin black paint for a near perfect match to the 1399 rear stock.

I'll be making my own shroud for it, but I've heard that a shroud or LDC does help with noise. Mine in stock form is already pretty quiet at 10 pumps, and has the punch to dispatch squirrels at 11m (took 4-5 already in stock form, iron sights, domed Remington 7.9gr pellets).

A great gun for modding.

JMJ
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: 1377x on April 14, 2011, 04:35:08 PM
go to accustoms.com
mellonair.com
for pc77/1377 parts best prices fast service
other than cosmetics they are basically the same gun
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Rescue35 on April 14, 2011, 06:48:30 PM
Just ordered some parts from Crossman. Great prices and shipping is just $4. Their Customer service can't be beat. In 7-10 days I'll have a "PC22" for $20 in parts.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 14, 2011, 10:44:40 PM
Yeah I am fighting with should I go 22 or stay with 177 since finding out it is a easy conversion and after having the .22 trail NP. I do not think I will need to use it for pests unless it is somewhere tight. Likely it will be used as my backyard toy so the 22 has me worried the extra fpe could get out of my yard. The Trail easily punched holes through the fence boards. BUT 22 is a lot of fun, where 177 flys through items a 22 tears em apart.

I will likely pick up a pc77b or whatever the designation is from wallyworld tomorrow. I have yet to find any other local places that carry these with the same price, online is going to cost more even with deep discounts some places offer.

Any ideas on cheap AO low power scopes?  I have considered replacing my Trail's scope with a bugbuster, the Center point's focal length is too far for some of my pest related shooting. And yeah shooting flys with a 177 sounds like a good evenings worth of fun.  :D

What is the length of the gun with the 24" on?  Most sites I have found offering it either cut and crown it free or recommend you have it done. Is the factory stuff that bad? I know what I found under the shroud on my Trail was nasty and very ugly. I assume most of these guys selling other lengths are using these barrels and cutting them to length. I want a bit of length to cut report and aid in accuracy but still want it short enough to cut down in length I was hoping for a sub 24" gun from the back of the receiver. Not to mention enough length to add a shroud or the like to tart it up and protect the tip.

Is the shipping flat 4$ for everything or per item?

I will go lurk that forum posted for info and more ideas, uh trouble to get into. So far I have read first thing to fix is the barrel band since the new one is junk. SO maybe I will order the steel receiver barrel and stock from crossman after all then save up for the flattop and other custom bits. Read something about Marauder bands fitting on it so I wonder if I can do this instead of the plastic band. Kid of hard looking at part #s without visuals as to what those parts are. I think I should go dl all of the pdfs in hopes for exploded views with call outs.

Thanks for the help, info and urls!

Last question, that grip is it hard plastic like the stock parts or more of a nylon? Wondering if I can just dye it vs painting it. I assume the shoulder stock is no longer green as well. (seen a few of these through searches)

yeah, I am WAY to wordy
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: michael word on April 15, 2011, 01:06:21 AM
If you plan on doing any hunting with it, I would go to .22 caliber. I converted my 1377 to.22 with a 14 inch barrel. With the stock piston and valve, I am getting 450 fps with cp pellets for a 50% increase in energy over .177 caliber. With a flat top piston and valve, I hope to get up to 520-550 fps.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 15, 2011, 02:56:30 AM
I dont think I will do any hunting with it. Maybe some pest control for when the trail is too big or noisy. Likely use it when we go on a "gun" day The idea of 22 is it is a bit more "fun" to see cans and stuff jump or loose large chunks. Also less of the "did I hit it?"  I know many will just say buy a second and get both! which I might end up doing in the end. . . . :D

Real issue though is the FPE with a 22. Can I contain it in a backyard? The Trail I do not shoot as often as the 177 since I have holed my fence and found rounds were punching easily through one end and out the other of my steel shed. SO it now is used only with a 4" backstop and pest control. Part of the reason I have been tempted with the 1377. But @600fps and much lower FPE Im not sure how much I should worry with a 22 vs 177. 

Think what I will do is shoot it some stock before I decide which way I will go. I do have a pile of 177 laying about.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: michael word on April 15, 2011, 03:30:44 AM
The 1377 stock will only shoot about 490-500 fps, not the 600 they state on the box. At this velocity, the pistol has about the same amount of power as your typical low powered match rifle. My 1377 will barely penetrate a 2-liter bottle filled with water at 25 yards in stock form and bounces off empty bottles. The power is only about 4.6 fpe versus about 16 fpe from your trail. So it is relatively safe for backyard shooting. Even for pest control I would recommend .22 as it still only produces about 6.5 fpe, which is still less than the trail, but will make sure you give them a more humane kill.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Rescue35 on April 15, 2011, 09:19:12 AM
My reasons for going .22 are hunting, 14.5" barrel without cutting it down, and I want one.

The only crossman .177 barrel longer than the stock 10.25" is 24" and I see no reason to crank up the lathe to cut it down.

Crossman's shipping was a flat $4 for the entire order and there was alot of stuff in it :)
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 16, 2011, 03:45:12 AM
Well here she is picked her up from the wallyworld near the old nuttree, think they call the area the nugget now. So some flimsy bits here and there but some odd things like it looks like the barrel breech is threaded. I have to wait until I get home to knock out the roll pin to verify. Not seeing any of these hammer shenanigans people have mentioned like closing and not being able to be reopened. Some pics for now, not that great since I am not at my house where I could set things up for better pics. Likely order a barrel, breech and stocks on monday. Decided for now to stick with 177 but I would much prefer to get a 18" barrel over the 24, so likely I will end up with a cut down one (no lathe here so dunno) or a silly long barrel shrug. Maybe a full shroud or long shroud would help heh but length would be nice to keep it down.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Bentong on April 16, 2011, 09:50:56 AM
Barrel on mine was 24" cut down to 19 with a hacksaw, dressed up with a file then crowned using electric drill and honing stone from HF. Shoots 706fps 10 pumps with 7.9 CPL. 12FPE with 20 pumps.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9484/13772q.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9484/13772q.jpg)
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 17, 2011, 12:52:01 AM
Yeah that is an idea to check, getting the long barrel and doing the cut and crown myself. Only thing Id lack is the bluing but if I stuff a moderator shroud over Ill just have to make sure to moly it or whatnot to protect the metal. Saw a link to the resources with a DIY so I will have to check it out. I just got back and was able to shoot a few rounds, stuff heads to the right by 2" @ oh 30ft so some adjusting on the irons, or would that be plastics? :p for now while i get the order and plan together so I can stick my red dot on and later a scope.

What you got there sir is almost exactly what I am after. Id like to get it so the shroud or moderator is right to the barrel strap, and probably a smaller scope. 2~6 or something able to focus down to 3yrds.

Now I just need to decide how much I want to change out that is not crosman made, bolts etc. Also need to find out how much a moderator or shroud will add to the overall length, atm I probably will only want it for weight and looks. The gun at 8 pumps is much quieter than my HB17 at 3. Trigger is much nicer as well.
Still wonder though do other 1377c/pc77's or other 1377 period have this threaded tip. Going to check the threat type but it does look metric. 10mm?
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: 1377x on April 17, 2011, 03:52:07 AM
https://mac1airgunstore.com/index.php?osCsid=9302a39558a51f4057597e39951c492e
another great source for crosman parts
i believe he is in or near sacramento,ca
someone correct me if im wrong
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 19, 2011, 06:26:03 PM
Nope south of me. Distance is not much of an issue to me. Is this mac the same as the one that guest posts on Mr. Gaylord's blog? I took a look but only saw parts that were similar to 1377, not sure of what there would work on this gun.

Real issue now is if I should just pay the extra for a shorter barrel or just screw it and get the 5$ 24"er and if I hate it a lot spring later for the 30$ part?
I'm a bit at a stand still atm since crosman is not taking orders all week.
I measures 24" off my receiver and it makes the gun 27" from rear sights to the tip. SO I assume it would be a total of roughly 34~36" counting the plastic stock I will be getting this for now until I can locate someone selling the end cap mods for a wire stock. The plastic then will go to my hb17.  This does assume the steel receiver does not push the barrel out further. But looking at how this gun is made the barrel needs to be where it is for the transfer port. Need to replace that too since the upper part is metal to metal. Bottom has a gasket. Thinking shoegoo would work for a temp until I can locate poly tube of the right size.

Anyhow cannot wait.

Weight:
I have found this thing rises easily at higher pumps, I assume this is due to it's weight. Im wondering how much the longer barrel will help. THis also leads to another question,

Shroud/break: How much length do these add? The one on my benji touches the barrel with a spacer to allow the air to flow into it. It is a threaded deal where the ones for this gun are allen keyed. SO is it a variable thing? The shrouds/breaks appear solid as well. Though the carbon ones Im at a loss with. I am considering brass or alum, like to get it annoed or powder coated black, but that is just an appearance thing.

Trigger: I have seen people adding finger pads to the triggers is this just a bit tapped out with set screws onto the trigger? My hb17 trigger is heavy and thus uncomfortable. Sadly that uses a wire spring vs a coil so I cannot change it too easily without drilling holes into the gun. (not sure if I want to do this atm)

Cutting the barrel and crown: Ok the only issue is cutting that thick @@@ barrel, but really that's just a case of time and effort. I have a band saw but likely will do it with a hacksaw too if I cheap out on the $30 part. The real question is how do you protect the now raw finish from rust? Just make sure it is covered on molly or oil? Or thin coat of paint?  My benji I have the same issue since the crown was &^^& on it I filed and recrowned the thing but I just dumped grease on it for now.

Wear:
Anyone have issues with the plastic plate that covers the trigger sear etc? Since it retains all the piviot pins etc for the trigger and sear I am concerned about those holes widening up and creating slop. I have also noticed the arm for the pumper getting scratched up from the tube. Is this a common issue? I am left handed so I pump with my right hand so the scratches are on the left side of the arm.

So far it seems this gun is weaker than my hb17. I cannot tell if it is more consistent since the irons are like 3 times as thick. 30~40ft out the front sight is 2 times wider than a soda can. :O So I cannot wait to get the red dot mounted. It is much quieter and far easier to pump than the hb17. Granted I need 5 pumps to the hb's 2 or 3.

Finally that threading, after taking the gun apart it is just bad lathe work to mill the tip down to fit into the barrel "clamp" Well I guess it could be called threading in some form :p 

Buy list as of now

stage 1
longer barrel (24 to try out)
Steel breech/receiver
Carbine stock
backpacker pumper arm
hinge deal/barrel band (really would like a metal one but cannot find anything @ crosman)

stage uh 1.5?!
longer probe! stock one is kind of hey!.
3/4 dove to weaver/picatinny for easier junk attaching. (likely to get my np's scope)

Stage2
Flat top and related parts
transfer port seal thingy.
rear cap deal for wirestock and power adjuster thing (not sure how this bit works but I assume it allows spring changes)
spring to allow full release of air
possibly replace the plastic parts in the compression area. see image ( I think this IS the piston itself)


Stage 3
expensive bits, stocks maybe? (might make these myself depends on if the new house has room for the shop tools)
real scope?
??
Stage4
extra barrels? or another gun to do 22. ffff

Not sure how much of this will be done in order, since I am still learning what is what. Sorry for the LONG post and 20questions. I have not had much time to research constantly on the road lately. Most forums do not play nice with the crappy browser on my cel.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: slothart on April 19, 2011, 08:12:05 PM
Some grip options if you haven't already seen it...
http://www.rbgrips.net/CROSMAN1377.html (http://www.rbgrips.net/CROSMAN1377.html)
He also makes wood inserts for the plastic stock and the gallery has some examples of full wood stock as well.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: 1377x on April 20, 2011, 11:16:30 AM
ill try to answer some of the question
the barrel .177 or .22 go for the 24" you can always cut it to length.hack saw ,band saw ,miter saw the important thing is the cut is straight there is a tutoral here for crowning
poly tube is just 1/4" refrigerator water line
i use a 4" long 3/4 diameter muzzle brake on mine.works great for the neighbors
the plastic grip frame cover is fairly new.have to wait for reports to come in but so far so good
for end cap stock mounting check these guys out
www.mellonair.com (http://www.mellonair.com)
he makes a paintball stock adapter that would work for you
www.accustomparts.com (http://www.accustomparts.com)
he makes a nice wire stock
both priced fairly
with a steel breech you can mount scopes and red dots
triggers many vendors for those too many to list but if you need help finding them let us know
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 26, 2011, 02:03:22 AM
Ok one question who offers breeches other than crossman that are still purchasable? Most i see are email only or 3rd party sales in the 80$+ range on sites not updated in years. I read that the breech sold by crosman isnt that great. I do plan to get a aftermarket long probe bolt. SO would this tighten things up?
I am looking at melon air for the bolt.  Maybe going with the #7 bolt handle. Not sure here which is easier on the fingers or if it is just an appearance thing. I do know stock is a bit short.
I am considering ACCustom parts for the flattop valve and piston. (assume you need both) and a matte black shroud from them. Planning to get one that will mostly cover the barrel from the band out. Again, I am not sure how much barrel goes into the break/shroud, does it go into the shroud/break most of the things length or just a few inches in? O_o

Right now it looks like I will end up ordering the crosman breech for now.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: MountainMan126 on April 26, 2011, 08:35:39 AM
Yes, if you get a F/T piston you need the matching valve to go with it. I have the Crosman breech on mine, no complaints on it. I am also looking to do the longer, probably flow through bolt at some point but haven't yet. I think my next upgrade is going to be a raised comb somehow. I haven't decided on what materials to use yet.

I have never ordered from these guys but I believe this is still available for a non-Cros. breech set-up.
http://scopesandammo.com/storefront/product_info.php/brass-breech-kit-for-crosman-13xx17xx22xx-p-427 (http://scopesandammo.com/storefront/product_info.php/brass-breech-kit-for-crosman-13xx17xx22xx-p-427)

Ethan
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: slothart on April 26, 2011, 09:59:26 AM
I haven't tried him, but i like the look of the breech he makes.  Based on the pictures, he seems to have adjusted it so the breech screw is not right under where you drop the pellet in.  $71.50

http://www.cothranmachine.com/ (http://www.cothranmachine.com/)
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Mebits on April 26, 2011, 11:31:22 AM
MM, try this:

http://www.combatstocks.com/SKS_Cheek_Rest.cfm (http://www.combatstocks.com/SKS_Cheek_Rest.cfm)

M
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: JMJ in NC on April 26, 2011, 01:26:38 PM
Not as inexpensive as the SKS Cheek Rest, but, here's what the home-grown cheek rest I added to my 1399 rear stock recently. I'm using thumbscrews until I get the position right, then I'll switch to low-profile button-head screws.

JMJ
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 26, 2011, 09:55:14 PM
Yeah I saw that AR cheekpeice, likely I will end up making one since I am left handed. I just have to locate some of that plastic to shape if I end up needing a cheek rest. Used to my old SilverStreak (or whatever that benji-sher 177 nickle gun was man I miss it) SO I am not used to having such a device.

The stock, what one is everyone getting? The list I have shows a 1389 part number and a 12$ cost, vs the website's 1399 number and 27$ cost. I do not mind if the 1389 is greenish, since it would match the pump grip. Though in the end it will all go onto my old HB17, EXP since that gun might get a 1377 frame on it. The trigger is really funky on it. Need to dig deeper into that gun. Also need to find out how to get the darn rollpin out of it. Had to backwards clean it since it was seriously full of gunk.



Got my order numbers all lined up. Only things I have to verify are the stock #s and costs of things.

I would like to find a metal pump pivot/barrel ring (bit that the pump arm joins into and caps the pump tube) I found a place but I am unsure if things are for sale anymore.
http://www.blueforkdesign.us/44501/38878.html (http://www.blueforkdesign.us/44501/38878.html)
43$ is kind of ouch, but it is not a simple shape. I figure this would do a better job of holding the 24" barrel than the plastic which could move as well as a nicer mount for the whole pump arm assembly.
I do not want to sink too much into this right away.
Yeah I have been drooling at cothranmachine parts. But way off the affordability scale for me.

JMJ what type of plastic is that? I had a source ages ago for a nylon like plastic which was very resilient. I used it as skid plates on R/C rock racers and crawlers, sadly I have moved out of state and boeing closed up the junk shop. There is a TAP nearby but most of that is plexi, that cracks at a hat around holes.

A question about these power adjusters on the  pumpers, does this adjust the tension on the spring back there to adjust how much air is let out of massive pump loads (15+ pumps)??  Asking since many of the people selling wirestock caps or fancy caps for the end list option to not have a power adjuster included.
I really need to spend a few days reading through the 54 site and the crosman forums. But have only had a few hours here and there to lurk about. >_<

Also what do you guys like red dots, scopes (ranges ao etc) on these guns? I see a lot of peeps and irons but I find my skill with these has declined drastically. I like the red dot on my hb17 since I can pull the gun in real close and shoot it with it resting on my cheek. Guess it is just a lazier way to aim. So I am sorta torn between the advantage of a scope's ability to magnify and compensate for my bad eyes, and the red dots put the dot on and fire simplicity. (well within reason of holdoff etc)
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Rescue35 on April 26, 2011, 10:36:53 PM
I highly recommend the flat top piston and valve. I just made one and it makes a noticeable difference.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 26, 2011, 11:02:17 PM
YEah I plan to no matter what, the plastic piston thing is nasty. I just have to decide who's I will go with. Likely go with AC for both since I am not sure if you can "mix and match" What I question is why is is so much better? My HB17 that I tore mostly apart last night has a similar coned valve and cupped piston. (it is a soild lump of rubber AFAIK couldn't get the roll pin out of that gun)
Anyhow I liked the brass and delrin guide offered there. @ 18 and 25 shipped it seems like a good deal. EXP since many others are sold out of one or the other.

er lol looking at it AC and Mellon seem to be the only ones I have bookmarked that have these offered. Least where I know I wont have to deal with customs. Found some Canadian places and overseas stuff. But with the way things are I want to avoid that.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Brewerja on April 27, 2011, 03:34:38 AM
Roll pin trick #792; I use a drift and brass hammer when ever possible, sometimes, i have to improvise. I have a really solid chunk of hard plastic. i drilled a hole through it. I have a small C clamp that i modded, i cut a 4" nail down to about 1/4" and epoxied it to the center of one bite surface of my C clamp.Carefully line things up and start crankin down! after you get it started, yank em with a pliers, sand the rust off then coat em in moly and pres them back in when your done. If used this trick in the armory on many Beretta 92f's, M16's, M240g's M2's and MK19's replacing parts....and if that wont press out a pin, your screwed!! I dont believe in putting my guns into a hydraulic press. its against my religion, lol
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 27, 2011, 04:14:32 AM
Think Im screwed then! :o
I think I will have to resort to drilling it out. It is not like the roll pins in the 1377s it is a single layer of steel rolled into a cyl and pressed in. I have used a nail hammer even a pin punch (a stepped spring steel punch that is suppose to push these out) The HB17 is brass itself.
I have tried the whole clamp thing the next trick is a vice with a custom clamp surface IE drilled out to form the barrel with a notch in to clear the rollpin and a ground down nail to push against and lots of cranking. If that fails Im stuck drilling it out and hoping I do not screw the gun up. Hydralic press, I do not have such a thing and would likely never get one near brass gun parts. SMOOSHHH  Just smacking at this or putting it in a clamp was enough to have me cringing.

Long run Im going to have to strip the paint off. The last 2 months or so a lot has started to chip off. 15+ years and it is fine, but lately its flaking off like mad. Just using leather and pine bits has it flaking off near the roll pin.

I hope the pc77/1377 is easier to deal with in this regard when I go to change out those things. Granted they have not been in the gun for years upon years.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: JMJ in NC on April 27, 2011, 09:53:35 AM
The stock, what one is everyone getting? The list I have shows a 1389 part number and a 12$ cost, vs the website's 1399 number and 27$ cost. I do not mind if the 1389 is greenish, since it would match the pump grip.


JMJ what type of plastic is that? I had a source ages ago for a nylon like plastic which was very resilient. I used it as skid plates on R/C rock racers and crawlers, sadly I have moved out of state and boeing closed up the junk shop. There is a TAP nearby but most of that is plexi, that cracks at a hat around holes.

The rear stock PN is 1399, the foregrip is PN 1389-010 I think.

The plastic sheet I used is Kydex, which is supplied textured on one side, and is a blend of acrylic and PVC. It can be heat-formed and is used extensively in knife sheaths and gun holsters.

I did a write-up of my cheek-rest on the Crosman Pistol Owners Forum.

JMJ
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 27, 2011, 05:27:17 PM
Yeah I had a feeling it was, think Ill have to google a source. Have not found a local source for sheet without going to mc overchargemaster.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 27, 2011, 06:02:46 PM
AUGh, I dunno when I will be able to place my order. 4:30pm eastern means I gotta get home before noon. Anyone know if there is a email I could use instead? I do not care if it is going to take a few days to confirm stock and pricing (since I bet my prices are off) Only issue is the shipping costs. I hear you get $4 flat for phone orders but not anywhere else.  Been working some late hours, so I think if I cannot email my best bet is to stay up for them to open! O_o

This is my current order list
Steel Breech kit

1377SBPK  29.99

Stock

1389-022  12.50

Barrel 1760 24"

1760-001  16.75

Plastic Band 2289

788b011  1.85

Band screw

781a012  1.20

and one summit stock  for my np
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: JMJ in NC on April 28, 2011, 12:09:06 AM
Yeah I had a feeling it was, think Ill have to google a source. Have not found a local source for sheet without going to mc overchargemaster.

Try knife kit suppliers. I found some thinner Kydex sheet used for making knife sheaths and handles.

http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=41_54_136 (http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=41_54_136)

Here's one source, but the thickest sheet is .093". Mine is twice as thick. I have some left over since I only used 1/8th of my 12x12 sheet.

JMJ
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 28, 2011, 04:36:38 PM
ok got a reply to my email. These are the quotes I got.

1389-002 ........ $12.29                                           1377SBPK ........$29.99
1760-001 ........$12.08                                             Shipping ...........$11.82
 788B011 ........ $1.79                                               TOTAL...............$41.81
 781A012 .........$1.15
1389-010 ........$9.45
Shipping ..........$4.00
TOTAL .............$40.76

The Summit stock is part number B19-7-04-00 and the price is $23.20. Shipping and handling for that would be the flat $4.00 fee.

Nearly half the cost of the breech in shipping?? uh I think I need to look elsewhere for this part. *(&^ Id be $30 from that SS unit!  I assume the separate shipping on the summit is cause they are sold out. Interesting most everything else is cheaper than the prices I found on the forums.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: JMJ in NC on April 28, 2011, 05:15:25 PM
I lucked out and bought my steel breech during their sale (20% off accessories). The "savings" on the steel breech and rear stock paid for the shipping.

I was trying to get a hold of treerathunter to order his LH steel breech ($40 for black oxide one) but no luck. The Crooked Barn breech is pretty nice at $41, but I'll take steel over aluminum, especially since I'll be clamping a scope to it.

JMJ
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 28, 2011, 06:00:29 PM
Yeah thats the issue is what now. Because that is the one part I do not want to do without but that $12 is a killer. Cost me less to fed-ex a mobo with 500$ insurance. I think I would need a 40% off sale to recoup that shipping cost.

 And yeah alum does not sound solid enough. Think what I will do is see if I can locate the crosman one through someone else. Sadly I will likely have to just eat the shipping and do it. 81$ in &^^& for a 50$ gun. hah maybe I should have just bought a used backpacker and replaced the guts.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 28, 2011, 07:07:39 PM
erummm I just read something about stock makers for the pc77 having to change things from the older guns with the brass trigger. NOW how does this affect the buttstock? I have fount 2 with different stock#s and prices.
One is I think the old backpacker one which I assume is greenish to match the pump handle. (something Id want) for 12$ or so
1389-022
The other is the one for sale on the crosman site itself #1399 at about 27$ I have looked at the grip frame on both guns and they look the same except small things like the spring post so Im wondering if my want for the matching stock and grip are going to be a failure? O_o anyone here with both styles of gun or a pc77 (black trigger/plastic frame plate) with this older 1389 part on?

As for the breech, I think Im stuck paying through the nose on the 12$ shipping. Kind of burns since I see others posting elsewhere who ordered it like less than a month ago and paid $4 flat for the whole list+ Even at 30$ more I cannot justify that SS breech. The brass breeches I found are all out of country either UK or canada. Ok enough crying rivers guess I gotta not so good it up and put down my 80$. hahaha still RRRAGE if only I had just allowed myself to get sucked into the temptation sooner!!!

That alum breech is nice looking though. But I agree I would worry about how it would hold up with abuse and a scope. I am planning my build for this to be a hiking camping gun, something that will get abused. Man, browsing around I am finding so many great breeches that are no longer made.

wow c r a p  is a bad word?
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: JMJ in NC on April 29, 2011, 12:33:17 AM
I think the backpacker rear stock has some kind of quick attach-detach system whereas the 1399 stock secures with the standard grip screws. My 1399 is very tight on the grip frame, fwiw.

Good luck finding a backpacker as they are out of production in the US and highly sought after. Still available in Canada, but slightly detuned for their FAC Regs.

Good luck JMJ
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 29, 2011, 02:56:10 AM
well the 1389 part # is what is quoted on a lot of builds that I have seen and it is just got that green hue and possibly a slight difference in the backside of the stock. I am pretty much locked into this gun vs looking for a used unit. My online searches have only located the crosman breech at higher prices 44$ etc preshipping.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 29, 2011, 05:10:20 PM
WELL I decided to heII with it and called. Even though it was past the 4:30 (it is a 4hour diff, I think ny observes DLST) I asked for Kim, first lady sounded disappointed.
She got me that breech for 33.99 shipped.
The stock she got it for about 10$! The 1389-022 was miss quoted to me as a 1389-002. I would have loved to get the old green stock since the green is not bad looking, and would I think have looked sweet on my hb17 when I convert to a wood or wire stock, and strip the hb to the brass.

SO my order of the stock, barrel, barrelband, forgrip, and screw came out to 39.34

Definetly worth calling her, dont use speakerphone! lol exp if your westcoast, I often use it prior cause it is easier for them to hear me. But she went out of her way to look things up and get the best cheapest price!  So I guess in a week I will be ripping my pc77 apart!

Also have to note a lot of what she quoted was different than that email quote I got too, most all cheaper.

I see some people have put a insert into that plastic stock, is there a reason beyond looks to do this?
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Rescue35 on April 29, 2011, 05:35:36 PM
]

Ha! That right there is funny.

What is this "GAMO" thing you speak of?
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on April 29, 2011, 06:33:24 PM
Quote
Ha! That right there is funny.

What is this "GAMO" thing you speak of?

huh?!

Admin edited this and left this broke text, to which I replaced the quote code . . . . . lol dunno what to say about this. . . the original poster was WAY off topic and slanderous but it was still just an opinion. Opinion of a troll but well hah WHATEVER.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Rescue35 on April 29, 2011, 08:45:44 PM
Sorry, the post I quoted was originally in this thread. It didn't belong here and now it's gone which makes mine even more irrelevant than his.

I definitely want to know how your 1377 shots once you get the new parts. Be prepared for a wait though. I'm still waiting on mine. $4 shipping isn't fast.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding
Post by: Madkoifish on April 29, 2011, 09:21:49 PM
Well it is USPS so from NY to calif I will figure 7 days. Now I cannot say anything about the time it takes for crosman to process my order. It sounds as if everything was stocked. I held off on the summit stock for now since supplies are tight and I might be moving in the next 2 months or so. Still like the Storm stock too cause of the notch in the front but that's for the trail NP thread lol.

 But I cannot wait, I have to now decide what to do for a sight. Steal my HB17s red dot and get it a new dot or cheapo scope or get a new one for the pc77. Really tempted to scope this thing though with a bugbuster or the like. Something with a 2~6 with AO and close focus. 

Ill post pics as I do things. I will keep it all in this thread. Maybe I will need a mod to change the title.

Cash is tightening up right now so I am going to reorder my upgrades.

Stage1 parts ordered

stage 2 flat top and piston, SS hinge pin or some sort of alternative to the roll pin. Possibly get a long probe bolt, or one of those open bolts. Need to read up on those.

stage 3 adjustable power end cap likely with a wire adapter. Some sort of metal hinge and strap replacement. power spring possibly.

#2 and 3 might swap places depending on what part fit is like with the plastic strap.

stage 4 shroud. Likely a "nearly"full barrel from tip to strap. Not sure if I want risers and do a whole barrel since that would req custom straps (if needed again need to read up on it)

Stage 5 all the eye candy, grips stock etc. Maybe order up a milled side plate or make my own. The plastic on the hinge pins bothers me. Or order the part and drill and sink the 3rd screw hole.

hah wordy me. Sorry for the WALL OF TEXT guys.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on May 07, 2011, 04:16:23 AM
again WITH THE questions!!!
what is the lead or ship times people are seeing from crosman? I'm hoping it'll come before next sat! Cannot wait already planning a 22 gun, might keep that a pistol. Peeved I passed up getting the Summit stock since I will be relocating and back ordering it didn't sound like the right course, then they get in a shipment!!! >_< Tempted to place my HB repair order in and just add the bloody stock to that order!!!!

And even MORE questions, not sure if I mentioned this but what do YOU guys run on these red dots or scopes? I have read that zero is a PITA cause the barrel band knocks the barrel out of zero. Bit of a concern but I had been considering floating the barrel. (unless 24 is too long to do this.) Though I might be cutting it to 18" in the end.

Final are some images showing little things I have done while I wait for bits to arrive.

First I cut the probe down to a pin, annoying with some pellets but it is less bulk above the transfer port, rounds hit just a tad harder. I did not cut it down further since I might mess with it further IE probe tip etc.

Other changes are a small spring to get the slack out of the trigger, makes a light first stage. Replaced the ball in the safety with a polished down nail head. (lost the ball, carefully opened things up and it just jumped at my face and bounced all over my desk into the place such things go when you lose them. . . -_- ugh. Last change was a smaller lighter spring off a old RC car shock. Made it semi adjustable, it is still a bit heavy but the gritty feel is gone. I do plan to redo this stuff sans the leftover RC bits. Oh I also shimmed the trigger and sear with teflon washers again from RC stuff. Also polished the bits in the trigger group and redid the crown and face of the barrel for practice and reblued it with a little tub of casey superblue. (more of a make it black liquid than blue) Really tempted to take the stock barrel and sand off the stock finish and buff that booger out and blue it with a glossy finish on vs the brushed finish it came with.
Anyhow prattling now images follow.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on May 07, 2011, 04:24:25 AM
bugger forgot the attachments!

really not much to look at though heh. . . . .  ::)

Also adding image of some purple heart I have had for years, debating which gun will get this. Worried though because it gets that tearing like mahogany does so I am unsure of it's suitability for working into grips etc.

The probe is rough atm since I was not sure if I wanted to cut it down more or wait and pin it with steel for a probe tip, mostly messing about since the steel breech comes with a new bolt. Also moved to the peep sight and holding the gun close in like with my HB17, not sure if this is proper use of a peep but it gets the shot placements so I guess it does not matter. :D

Oh not pictured but all the pistols and the trail got new hdw
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on May 07, 2011, 04:34:13 AM
Sorry, the post I quoted was originally in this thread. It didn't belong here and now it's gone which makes mine even more irrelevant than his.

I definitely want to know how your 1377 shots once you get the new parts. Be prepared for a wait though. I'm still waiting on mine. $4 shipping isn't fast.
lol I was woah wrong thread! hah did not even consider it was posted to my thread.  :P Likely move this wip over to the crosman pistol forum. I think most of you are there as well. learned heaps this last week lurking the place.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Rescue35 on May 07, 2011, 09:24:36 AM
I received my shipment from Crosman last Wednesday the 4th...I ordered on the 14th. they did stop taking orders the week after I placed mine (I ordered mid day Thursday) for inventory so I probably got caught in that. Mine came UPS not USPS.

Here is the thread where I have been showing my progress.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,11908.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,11908.0.html)

I've also learned a lot off of the Crosman pistol forum. There is a lot of compiled information over there.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: AlwaysLearning on May 09, 2011, 04:17:21 PM
I have this gun and don't like it. Seeing all of these modifications is pretty surprising... Any quick modifications or tuning I should do to make shooting this gun more enjoyable?
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Rescue35 on May 09, 2011, 05:28:25 PM
Alwaylearning,

What don't you like about it? What do you want to improve on to make it more enjoyable for you? What do you want it to do?
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: AlwaysLearning on May 09, 2011, 09:12:07 PM
I decided to spend some time with this gun today. I've decided that my dislike of it is mostly from the regular sights and pumping it (I'm lazy). So my question Rescue, is if you have a scope recommendation for this gun?
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Rescue35 on May 09, 2011, 09:33:54 PM
They best way to get rid of the plastic breech and sights is to get a metal breech (Crosman is the cheapest $30) that will let you mount your scope of choice. I haven't scoped either of mine but I do plan on making a metal breech and metal sights for the .22 especially.

Fancy breeches can be found here and at other custom builders sights.
www.crosmod.com (http://www.crosmod.com)
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on May 09, 2011, 10:48:58 PM
I like the pump, mostly cause I am not paying for my air, or am tethered to a scuba tank that costs too. Though Id love to be able to afford a Marauder and/or pistol though.

I am going to red dot mine for the time being, I have one on my HB17 (benji pumper pistol) And love it. It made a so, so gun a point and shoot affair. Still undecided if I will scope my pc77/1377x, or what works good for multiple distances on these guns.
Oh make sure whatever you order is for a dove not weaver/picatinny, or at least has standard tube dai to get separate rings. A lot of things I want to get are null because they are fixed weaver mounts. (no way to adapt them over except to get a dove to weaver adapter that adds like 3/4" in height.

For the time being try the peep sight. And hold the gun like a mini rifle, IE peep to your eye. You will have to line up the post to the middle of the dot and center but I found it improved the fun of the gun, no more squinting or guessing where it will lob the pellet. I can manage to nail a dime (barely see it with my &^^& vision) @ 15yards every time. Dunno if this is the proper use of a peep but it works for me.

Update on shipment. It appears the wait is on the banks not Crosman. That is if Crosman holds shipment for confirmed payment. The bank paid out this weekend. . . why the wait is beyond me. Other things often clear the same day. Could be it is a phone order over internet I dunno. So I guess my stuff will ship this week. Suppose I could call and req email confirmation of order status.
ohh man I hope it comes before sat. Got plans that day!
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on May 10, 2011, 11:37:33 PM
Well my breech showed up. All full of rustcoloured goop wiped off and uses a drop of pel on it and slapped it on. Breech channel is not milled that great it deviates a bit, easily seen when the bolt is in.
ANYHOW
it seems to hit harder, not sure if that is because it clamps that little transfer port thing more or not. Bolt def is now too short. So I will have to bodge something together or just order things sooner! lol.
Took a few min to adjust the reddot, wish the dot was smaller haha 10yds and these paper targets I made are covered by it even with my eye right on the backside of it. (closer you are smaller the dot appears) Oh well it is a cheapie stolen from another gun. I do need to decide what to do, scope or a reddot.

It really adds heft to the gun. Was surprised when I picked up the envelope they sent. Time to go plinking before the bugs come out.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: AlwaysLearning on May 10, 2011, 11:41:04 PM
Thanks to madkoi and rescue. I went out and shot a few rounds through the 1377 today and it was great. I was treating it too much like a 9mm. Holding it like a mini rifle worked out well.
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: Madkoifish on May 12, 2011, 07:52:10 AM
no problem, I might look like a goof shooting my pistol but it gets the lead where I want it. hahah.
Well I tried to contact Crosman the other day mailserver errors, but they still get them. Well as you see above like no more than 2 min of me clicking send the breech arrived! Thing is heavy!
haha
Anyhow I got emails one gave me tracking numbers, so more things showing up UPS vs USPS. O_o Says it went out on the 10th, so cool beans and whatnot..

Red dot Scope,
Well I think I made up my mind after sticking my red dot from my HB17 on. . . Im going to go with a scope. NOW the challenge, what kind hahaha think if a multi mag AO scope. I have not used a non ao scope seen some non AO ones with parallax set to 35yds 50yds 100yds so Im at a loss how this affects things. I do know I doubt I will be shooting this past 50yds.

Im thinking a 3 or 4~12 or so. Illuminated reticule (shoot a lot in the evening) Like to find something short and focus down close in. My Trail is like min of 10 yards so a lot of my backyard is wonk until I get at least 10ft out. Also looking for a long eye relief. I doubt Id need more than 3.5" but 5" would be cool. Hardest thing to shop for on these is the reticule. . . a lot fo sites do not show them, others (manu mostly) show a representation. I have heard some leapers have FAT lines. Hoping for something fine.  Zero knobs would be nice but not a end all for me atm.

Anyhow long way about to asking what does everyone else use for a scope?? What do you look for? What would you recommend?
Title: Re: 1377c/pc77 modding parts etc?
Post by: grumpy on August 14, 2011, 11:35:08 PM
So how you liking your 1377 ? Did you ever put a new stock on it ?