Quote from: D14Jeff on February 27, 2014, 04:38:20 PMa while back you posted about giving up on new 392's because of accuracy problems in many of them . i was wondering if you tried cleaning the paint out of the barrel and recrowning each of them before giving up on them . if you didn't ..... do you know it they will all shoot well after removing paint and cleaning them . were there other accuracy issues other than that that caused you to give up on new ones ? thanks , jeff .If they all shot well after cleaning the paint out that would be simply awesome and we would not be having this post/thread.I have 10 guns going back to Crosman now. I'd say 1/2 of them have the breech so far off they don't sight in to the sights. If those grouped I could fix them but the process is lengthy and it is not a fun thing to do. I see two problems in the production currently. The breech is not straight so I can't groove it or mount a peep and get the gun to sight in. Most of the breeches have the back end off to the left like they have a bad jig. If those guns group well I will groove the breech, put the gun in a jig (I made) so I can reflow the factory solder and put the group into the sights. When the breech is off so is the barrel because the breech rotates around the transfer port tube between the tube and breech. All the guns that have the crooked breeches need to have the barrel joint completely molten for the back half of the rifle to get everything to be straight and aligned. My jig grabs the grooves I've cut in the breech and has the leverage to straighten things once the thing is hot enough to fall on the floor in pieces. The only thing holding things together in my jig. So I have learned how to correct something that should have been done right in the first place. Now that I have straightened about a half dozen guns that grouped good out of the sights I have determined it is ludicrous for me to have to do such things. So what I have done is sort the guns. I look for guns that shoot decently into the sights. If they have lots of paint I could spend 20 minutes on every one and clean out paint. There is no way I want to tack a $20 premium onto a gun to do something anyone could do. We know from experience the guns just shoot better when you clean and crown them (everything does). If I provide the consumer with a service that is something they could do I will have to charge them the bench rate. I decided not to do it. All the things I decide to do or not to do is based on the efficacy of the outcome. When you see the product coming in that is more often unusable than useable you have an unsustainable situation you need to exit.Pragmatism is what makes me stop working on certain things. I will say it again. I can make any gun last forever but they are not worthy if they don't group and shoot into the sights. I don't think the guns need a crown job often. It is another task that when done right takes at least 15-20 minutes. Ask yourself if the factory should put a plug in the barrels when they paint them and avoid the clean out thing but they can't spend 2 minutes to save us 20. That is telling me they want to stop making this stuff and who am I to stand in their way of wrapping up the pump deal.They bought these divisions to shut them down and this is what is happening in my opinion. There is no better way to send that message than careless production and QC. If it was just paint and a crown and the barrels were great the possibilities would still exist to make steroids from new guns. All they have now is BIG BOX adequate. That is all that matters these days.The Factory doesn't care that I send 10 guns back as long as they have serial numbers and models correct. If Wally world was sending back a pallet that would get there attention so if you want to get an accurate gun I'd say 1/2 of what I see is worthy and the other half I do not want to have sent to me. I do not want anyone to drop ship stuff from other suppliers. I do not want to be in charge of Benjy Accuracy ANYMORE. I'm out of the loop. Period. I must turn out stuff I can be proud of or I will stop doing what I do. Test guns before you send them to make sure they shoot to your expectations. If they don't they need to go back. I don't want anyone to call to discuss this either. It will just put a larger burden on me to speak to everyone one at a time.I feel like people are thinking I'm too lazy to do a little prep. Nobody is as disappointed as me that I can't provide an American made Steroid Pump gun new anymore. The commitment I made is huge and now it is ONLY for the ones that are Worthy. I cannot afford the time to make things right when it takes 10 times the time to fix something than to get it right in the first place.I have a good 392 done on the Wall that is an Extended Billet Steroid Williams 392 for $375 right now. Also Good Dan Rocker 400,000 late 80's I just built to Steroid Williams Configuration. Clean gun with used peep $260.The Phone at the shop doesn't work because the wires got drowned. The Cell phone is the only line that works 310-327-3581 right now. you can contact the shop at mac1airgun@gmail.com. All the Steroids are finished. If you have one in the Mac1 shop you should call with your remittance info because I got caught up yesterday and I'm doing stuff now that came in in the last few days.mac1airgun@gmail.comTimmyMac1
a while back you posted about giving up on new 392's because of accuracy problems in many of them . i was wondering if you tried cleaning the paint out of the barrel and recrowning each of them before giving up on them . if you didn't ..... do you know it they will all shoot well after removing paint and cleaning them . were there other accuracy issues other than that that caused you to give up on new ones ? thanks , jeff .
Thanks for all the responses. Perhaps I was a bit hard on Greg and his Integrabase. (I really should stay off the internet when I've had a few). Nonetheless, people using this form to promote their products while asserting that the 392 is a squared away gun should expect some feedback. Nuff about that, and I'll leave Greg alone. As far as "tinkering" with air rifles, I do a bit of that with the Diana's: home-made spring compressor, new springs, piston seals, various lubes, deburring, etc., not to mention the challenges of just getting the scope mounts properly fitted and the scope leveled correctly. The Dianas are challenging, but worth the effort. When it comes to the 392, I believe I could open it up & do some basic parts replacement, clean the paint overspread, etc., but I have no intention of squaring receivers with a jig, breaking and reweilding the soldering, straighten things, etc. The these tasks go beyond both my skill level and interest. The 392 platform just isn't worth the trouble. Part of my frustration is I actually believed the hype that these guns "are not that bad". Yes they are "that bad". Thanks again, and if I post I photo of the 392 roasting in my fireplace, you'll know I've truly given up on it. Incidentally, the people at RL Air Guns are great, and I'll continue to buy form them.
Quote from: Ishootforblood on May 20, 2014, 12:59:30 AMThanks for all the responses. Perhaps I was a bit hard on Greg and his Integrabase. (I really should stay off the internet when I've had a few). Nonetheless, people using this form to promote their products while asserting that the 392 is a squared away gun should expect some feedback. Nuff about that, and I'll leave Greg alone. As far as "tinkering" with air rifles, I do a bit of that with the Diana's: home-made spring compressor, new springs, piston seals, various lubes, deburring, etc., not to mention the challenges of just getting the scope mounts properly fitted and the scope leveled correctly. The Dianas are challenging, but worth the effort. When it comes to the 392, I believe I could open it up & do some basic parts replacement, clean the paint overspread, etc., but I have no intention of squaring receivers with a jig, breaking and reweilding the soldering, straighten things, etc. The these tasks go beyond both my skill level and interest. The 392 platform just isn't worth the trouble. Part of my frustration is I actually believed the hype that these guns "are not that bad". Yes they are "that bad". Thanks again, and if I post I photo of the 392 roasting in my fireplace, you'll know I've truly given up on it. Incidentally, the people at RL Air Guns are great, and I'll continue to buy form them. I understand how you feel -- completely justified. The simple answer with the Integrabase is to use high mounts. A 392 that shoots is a joy to own. It not an accident that so many have had good experiences with them in the past. These rifles have an almost cult like following and Crosman is really missing the boat I like the old ones I have, but based on my last experience I would not recommend them.
if crosman kept the stock and power plant the same but changed it so the 13xx breech and barrels could work with it they would solve most of the problems .