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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: CitySniper on July 21, 2012, 01:19:56 PM

Title: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: CitySniper on July 21, 2012, 01:19:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysvz378Ttjw#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysvz378Ttjw#ws)
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: rsterne on July 21, 2012, 02:02:18 PM
Now what we need to know is what the actual pellet diameter is.... I'm guessing 0.311" (I say that because .30 cal is typically 0.308"), but does anyone actually know?....

Bob
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on July 21, 2012, 03:29:23 PM
Until this guns get in the hand of costumers and they start playing with ammo it's hard to really know what they are all about :)
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: QVTom on July 21, 2012, 03:32:00 PM
Very unique method of using air to index the mag. giving a low pressure lockout.  Very ingenious indeed!

.311 is the dia. used in the 303 British cartridge.  A safe bet.  I really expected the factory ammo to be conical w/hollow base for this rifle.

Ti Receiver.  Very cool but hard to see how it would be necessary considering the massive construction.


Tom
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: JohnnySweden on July 22, 2012, 02:11:37 PM

The size is 7.62 mm for calibre .30 in airgun use, according to JSB.
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: rsterne on July 22, 2012, 06:55:50 PM
.300" equals 7.62mm.... The 7.62 mm NATO round measures 0.308" groove diameter (and bullet diameter) and 0.300" across the lands, however.... Just like the .303 PB bullet measures 0.311".... What it's "called" and what it measures are, unfortunately, two different things.... The .22LR measures 0.222", while the .22 airgun measures 0.217"....

Where did you get the information on the JSBs?.... Is that the OD of the head of the pellet?.... If so, I'd be surprised, because it would be too small for a barrel measuring 0.303", 0.308", or 0.311".... and I don't know of any airguns that measure 0.300"....

Bob
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: .22 Varmint on July 22, 2012, 07:33:19 PM
Impressive airgun indeed, I would love to have a chance to shoot one!

Andrew 
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: JohnnySweden on July 23, 2012, 05:40:40 AM
Quote
Where did you get the information on the JSBs?

I spoke to Fredrik (president of FX Airguns) who had put pellets on order to JSB in order to develop his own calibre 30 project, based upon the Royale-series.

He said that the Imperiator pellets in calibre 30 is 7.62 mm and he sizes his ST barrel accordingly.
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: rsterne on July 23, 2012, 01:07:27 PM
If the JSBs are indeed 7.62mm, as marked on the tin (a reasonable assumption).... then they would be too loose in the Daystate Wolverine, even assuming it is .303 cal and not 0.311" bore.... They would also be wayyyyyyyyyyyy too loose in the (relatively) common .30 cal barrels offered by LW or DAQ, which measure 0.308" bore.... A pity....

Bob

Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: JohnnySweden on July 23, 2012, 02:31:28 PM

The so called "303" is infact 7.62 mm.

FX Airguns and Daystate is making their larger calibre rifles around the same pellet, the JSB Imperiator.

As far as I know Daystate barrels are LW but FX uses their own ST barrels.

If I recall things correct Daystate choose "303" due to the connection to the UK heritage of .303 rifle among powderburner.

Its not identical in size but the connection is there, and that is the important thing from a marketing point of view.

The idea is the same as calling a rifle "Made in the US" when 90% of the parts are made in China but the rifle assambled in Mexico and packed in the US. On the US market "Made in the US" will sell, just as ".303" will sell in the UK, better then ".30"


Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on July 23, 2012, 03:32:26 PM
So this gun will indeed shoot only the pellet like was said, no cast bullets will shoot out of the wolverine right ?
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: JohnnySweden on July 23, 2012, 04:28:32 PM

Its always possible that somebody makes a mold for cast bullets to this calibre too...

Over the shelf bought pellets will be one or two kinds from JSB, perhaps one from Defiant, don't know about HN.
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on July 23, 2012, 05:54:58 PM
Yeah, yeah, I see that,
but it does sure look like the ready avaiable huge ammount of cast bullets aren't going to be an option right ?
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: QVTom on July 23, 2012, 06:49:13 PM
NP,  I don't see why .308 bullets couldn't be sized down to .300 with a custom sizing die.

Tom
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: Rescue35 on July 23, 2012, 07:16:52 PM
If it is truly .300 caliber (ie 7.62mm) then it needs .308 bullets. If it is truly .303 then the groves are probably to deep (.311) for .308 ammo. Slug the barrel or at least mic the pellets. JohnnySweden is usually "spot on", as my cousins across the Atlantic would say, with his information. So I will wait patiently and keep saving my pennys. I really like the engineering on this rifle even though it does look chunky. If it shots .308 I might just buy one.
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: JohnnySweden on July 23, 2012, 07:53:02 PM
Yeah, yeah, I see that,
but it does sure look like the ready available huge amount of cast bullets aren't going to be an option right ?

I don't know about "ready available huge amount" of cast bullet, I be live that is a US thing. We don't have any amount of cast bullets here in Europe, since powder burners and hand loading is not by far as common as in the US.
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: CitySniper on July 23, 2012, 10:29:02 PM
Here is the other video...They are shooting knockdown targets at 100yards! not bad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH7iloFU8Yo&feature=channel&list=UL#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH7iloFU8Yo&feature=channel&list=UL#ws)
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: MustangMike on July 23, 2012, 11:18:24 PM
oh my, i think im in love.. yup its love, forget fx i will be buying one of these....

and i just saw the price tag and now have a broken heart
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: Rescue35 on July 24, 2012, 12:00:34 AM
oh my, i think im in love.. yup its love, forget fx i will be buying one of these....

and i just saw the price tag and now have a broken heart

Agreed. ~$2400 is a lot of money. But it is a very nicely done piece of kit.
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: MustangMike on July 24, 2012, 12:05:40 AM
it sure is but i doubt i could spend 2400 on a airgun, sorry.. its depressing the prices of these things

im willing to bet aoa only paid 1500ish per gun for them and are raising the price by 1000 per gun. i want a 30cal but unless i win 20 grand i wont be dropping that much on a airgun
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: rsterne on July 24, 2012, 01:15:45 AM
Quote
He said that the Imperiator pellets in calibre 30 is 7.62 mm and he sizes his ST barrel accordingly.

Quote
FX Airguns and Daystate is making their larger calibre rifles around the same pellet, the JSB Imperiator.

Quote
As far as I know Daystate barrels are LW

Interesting.... I have a .30 cal LW barrel sitting here and just slugged it.... It measures 0.308" bore diameter, and 0.300" (ie 7.62mm) across the rifling lands.... If the JSB pellets measure 7.62mm, they will basically fall through, barely touching the rifling.... Does that mean that the Daystate barrels are different than the standard .30 cal LW barrel?....

I have a feeling we're talking semantics here.... While airgun calibers, and pellets, are usually measured by the bore diameter (ie grooves), perhaps these new guns and pellets, for whatever reason, are going by their land diameter.... 4.5mm = 0.177".... 5.5mm = 0.217".... 6.35mm = 0.250".... but 7.62mm = 0.300".... I honestly don't think this mystery will be solved until someone slugs a Daystate and an FX and gives us the actual bore size (ie groove diameter) which dictates the pellet head size.... or we get to measure some of the new JSB pellets....

Bob
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on July 24, 2012, 06:22:33 AM
oh my, i think im in love.. yup its love, forget fx i will be buying one of these....

and i just saw the price tag and now have a broken heart

Agreed. ~$2400 is a lot of money. But it is a very nicely done piece of kit.


Price tag is actually 2700 :) :)
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on July 24, 2012, 06:23:12 AM
Quote
He said that the Imperiator pellets in calibre 30 is 7.62 mm and he sizes his ST barrel accordingly.

Quote
FX Airguns and Daystate is making their larger calibre rifles around the same pellet, the JSB Imperiator.

Quote
As far as I know Daystate barrels are LW

Interesting.... I have a .30 cal LW barrel sitting here and just slugged it.... It measures 0.308" bore diameter, and 0.300" (ie 7.62mm) across the rifling lands.... If the JSB pellets measure 7.62mm, they will basically fall through, barely touching the rifling.... Does that mean that the Daystate barrels are different than the standard .30 cal LW barrel?....

I have a feeling we're talking semantics here.... While airgun calibers, and pellets, are usually measured by the bore diameter (ie grooves), perhaps these new guns and pellets, for whatever reason, are going by their land diameter.... 4.5mm = 0.177".... 5.5mm = 0.217".... 6.35mm = 0.250".... but 7.62mm = 0.300".... I honestly don't think this mystery will be solved until someone slugs a Daystate and an FX and gives us the actual bore size (ie groove diameter) which dictates the pellet head size.... or we get to measure some of the new JSB pellets....

Bob

Bingo !!!
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: silverback2000 on July 24, 2012, 07:12:59 AM
What a great gun I might cycle over to the factory and see if I can have a look. Bit of a waste for UK though even if you get one on fire arms certificate the law says what you can shoot with Air weapons and the rabbit is the biggest. Maybe the hare. And they are nice with tiny holes in them. Or am I wrong is it just bird quarry that is stated in British law? Help me out brits.
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: Rescue35 on July 24, 2012, 09:03:57 AM

Price tag is actually 2700 :) :)

At that point $300 does not matter. The scope that goes on it will probably be twice that much.

It does sound like it will be a bit heavy but no more so than my Dragon Slayer.
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: acourvil on October 23, 2012, 03:20:48 PM
I know this thread has been quiet for a while, but it seems like the best one to follow the info about the Wolverine barrel measurements and the possibility of cast bullets.

I measure the pellets as having a .300 head and .308 skirt.  I haven't done any direct measurements of the bore grooves or landings because I am reluctant to take the shroud off, and the crown is too far inside the shroud to measure without doing that.

I really would like to have a cast alternative to the JSB pellets.  Mr. Hollowpoint says that they have tried their existing .308 bullets and they are too big, and that if he gets confirmed measurements of the barrel that he will do a new mold.

Has anyone else measured the Wolverine barrel (grooves and landings)?   Or taken off the Wolverine shroud to get access to the barrel crown?  It looks like the threaded part would likely unscrew to release the main part of the shroud, but at this point I'm reluctant to try it for fear of messing up the alignment.
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: rsterne on October 23, 2012, 10:12:43 PM
Push a pellet into the bore an inch or so, and then using a soft rod, push it back out the breech and measure it.... It should be a simple matter to measure the diameter across the rifling marks, provided there are an even number of lands.... Likewise, if the bore groove diameter is smaller than the head of the pellet it should be scraped away.... If there are no marks on the head between the rifling marks the pellet head is smaller than the groove diameter....

It may not be perfect, but it's more information....

Bob
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: acourvil on October 24, 2012, 06:45:50 PM
That makes sense, I'll give that try when I get a chance.  Thanks
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: lastedtiger on October 25, 2012, 03:42:42 AM
we have a winner here!It's a good looking airgun in my opinion but there is  no way on earth i am spending 2700$ on an air gun unless i win the lotto,lol!For that price,i rather get another AG+2 AR's!
I am sure a lot of you folks have deep pockets......
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: acourvil on October 25, 2012, 11:05:16 PM
Push a pellet into the bore an inch or so, and then using a soft rod, push it back out the breech and measure it.... It should be a simple matter to measure the diameter across the rifling marks, provided there are an even number of lands.... Likewise, if the bore groove diameter is smaller than the head of the pellet it should be scraped away.... If there are no marks on the head between the rifling marks the pellet head is smaller than the groove diameter....

O.k., I tried this with a couple of pellets.  The result was that the head was just barely marked, not enough to measure differently, at least not by me using a hand-held caliper.  The skirt did get "trimmed" to what looks to me like .304.  Enough so that the pellet rolls in almost a straight line instead of the slight arc of the pellet straight out of the tin.  For both pellets, the trimming seemed to be mostly one one side, not uniformly around the skirt. 

I think I might try to figure out a way to shoot a pellet into a tub of water or something to see what the pellet looks like if it goes all the way through the barrel.  I wonder how far it needs to go in water to slow sufficiently?  My wife would not be happy if I put a hole in our bathtub . . . .
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on October 26, 2012, 05:28:28 AM
A few well, well soaked Phone books will retain a domed pellet pretty unscanted
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: Rescue35 on October 26, 2012, 08:43:50 AM
You could do like Lloyd does and stuff a PVC pipe with plastic bags. I've used my own version of this and it works well.
Title: Re: Daystate Wolverine .303 caliber review!
Post by: Novaphoton on January 11, 2014, 09:55:37 PM
I like it . It will be my next air rifle. I hear its deadly accurate with those JSB pellets. I predict Evanix ,SamYang,& Hatsan will be jumping on board with .30 cal guns
within a year .. You will start to see more pellet varieties soon.