Quote from: stonykill on March 28, 2015, 11:24:25 AMQuote from: Bubba Zanetti on March 28, 2015, 06:18:15 AMIt would be nice to see for sure, but as this has been discussed before, simple economics and savvy marketing sell the lower end springers as the introductory AG's people often buy.A springer is cheaper to build and when it can launch a pellet faster than a standard pumper what do you think will sell? Its not about reality so we can toss logic and reason out when it comes to marketing.How many new AG owners do we help weekly who sign on because they bought a springer and are having some kind of issue? It is usually as simple as tightening screws, trying out different pellets and introducing the artillery hold, but that information is NOT advertised to the consumer. I have helped countless guys at the church I go to who have had these issues. I have had to re-educate them on AG ballistics and simple reality.The way I see the springers at Wal-Mart advertised is this: "You can have a .22 LR without the stigma of it being a firearm".I too would love to see a great out of the box pumper for youth and adults that can shoot at least quarter sized groups at 30 yards with a variety of pellets and better with the right pellet in the price range of 70-90 dollars. But it won't sell, ya know why? On the box it will say "Up to 800 FPS with 7 grain pellets".BZ Sadly Americans are hung up on speed. Be it from cars or air guns. Somehow the unknowing think that a faster pellet will not only kill a critter better, but will make up for a bad shot. Accuracy accuracy accuracy is what matters. The other thing I find sad is this. Sure we get a lot of newbies asking about their springers. But what about the other thousands who don't ask, set the AG aside as junk, and never get further involved in this sport. And one last thing, which probably won't be popular, but is true. People are generally lazy. They want the easy way out. So they aren't going to pump 10 times when they can cock the ag once. I personally love the resurgence of pumpers happening here. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my springers as well. But don't see myself buying any more of them. Pumpers I'll buy more of.I didn't want to say it, but you did Stony You are right, its an American thing, especially when it comes to marketing.BZ
Quote from: Bubba Zanetti on March 28, 2015, 06:18:15 AMIt would be nice to see for sure, but as this has been discussed before, simple economics and savvy marketing sell the lower end springers as the introductory AG's people often buy.A springer is cheaper to build and when it can launch a pellet faster than a standard pumper what do you think will sell? Its not about reality so we can toss logic and reason out when it comes to marketing.How many new AG owners do we help weekly who sign on because they bought a springer and are having some kind of issue? It is usually as simple as tightening screws, trying out different pellets and introducing the artillery hold, but that information is NOT advertised to the consumer. I have helped countless guys at the church I go to who have had these issues. I have had to re-educate them on AG ballistics and simple reality.The way I see the springers at Wal-Mart advertised is this: "You can have a .22 LR without the stigma of it being a firearm".I too would love to see a great out of the box pumper for youth and adults that can shoot at least quarter sized groups at 30 yards with a variety of pellets and better with the right pellet in the price range of 70-90 dollars. But it won't sell, ya know why? On the box it will say "Up to 800 FPS with 7 grain pellets".BZ Sadly Americans are hung up on speed. Be it from cars or air guns. Somehow the unknowing think that a faster pellet will not only kill a critter better, but will make up for a bad shot. Accuracy accuracy accuracy is what matters. The other thing I find sad is this. Sure we get a lot of newbies asking about their springers. But what about the other thousands who don't ask, set the AG aside as junk, and never get further involved in this sport. And one last thing, which probably won't be popular, but is true. People are generally lazy. They want the easy way out. So they aren't going to pump 10 times when they can cock the ag once. I personally love the resurgence of pumpers happening here. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my springers as well. But don't see myself buying any more of them. Pumpers I'll buy more of.
It would be nice to see for sure, but as this has been discussed before, simple economics and savvy marketing sell the lower end springers as the introductory AG's people often buy.A springer is cheaper to build and when it can launch a pellet faster than a standard pumper what do you think will sell? Its not about reality so we can toss logic and reason out when it comes to marketing.How many new AG owners do we help weekly who sign on because they bought a springer and are having some kind of issue? It is usually as simple as tightening screws, trying out different pellets and introducing the artillery hold, but that information is NOT advertised to the consumer. I have helped countless guys at the church I go to who have had these issues. I have had to re-educate them on AG ballistics and simple reality.The way I see the springers at Wal-Mart advertised is this: "You can have a .22 LR without the stigma of it being a firearm".I too would love to see a great out of the box pumper for youth and adults that can shoot at least quarter sized groups at 30 yards with a variety of pellets and better with the right pellet in the price range of 70-90 dollars. But it won't sell, ya know why? On the box it will say "Up to 800 FPS with 7 grain pellets".BZ
When I see a vastly improved Benjamin 417 and 412 I'll believe something is happening with pumpers. I really don't see it because it will under cut the PCP's and that's bad business for now. Two things have to happen before pumpers can come back. The first is the PCP's have to hit the wall in performance. The second is that a company mass produces and markets a pumper that competes with PCP's but has a lower price point. Simplicity will win out in the end.Bryan
$400 or $500 is peanuts compared to what folks are spending on PCP's or "canned air" and the equipment needed to operate them.Bryan
Quote from: bbv13 on March 29, 2015, 02:27:13 AM$400 or $500 is peanuts compared to what folks are spending on PCP's or "canned air" and the equipment needed to operate them.BryanI know. that's why I sold my pcp's and went back to springers & pumpers. the initial set up cost of most pcp's alone, is crazy. not to mention the prices I've been seeing on the guns themselves.
There was a nice project from Webley in 2010 : No production followed.
Quote from: Ultramarine on March 29, 2015, 05:26:44 PMThere was a nice project from Webley in 2010 : No production followed. They should have went ahead with production of that rifle. Maybe Webley has it in their back pocket waiting on the right time?Bryan
When I posted that pumpers have seen a resurgence here lately, I meant here, on the GTA site. I have seen more pumper threads in the last six months than I have in the two years + that I have been here. As far as what's selling out in the public, people go to Walmart and buy a cheap springer. When they get tired of cocking it, or frustrated with accuracy, they either quit the hobby, or they find GTA and get an entry level PCP and hand pump ala the FD-XS60, QB79 or Disco. From there, it's wherever their wallet will let them go. I grew up in the 60's and 70's muscle car era, and I understand the "need for speed". Tim the Tool Man "MORE POWER" was my Hero. I like to think that I finally came to my senses, or at least my wallet has, at age 64, and decided I would just own Co2's and Pumpers. I did keep the H-Pac for my 2260, for when I feel the urge for "more power", hey, I can't change all at once. LOL.