This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
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This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
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Topic: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production! (Read 15199 times))
Extreme Big Bore
Plinker
Posts: 263
yes
Real Name: Brent Hoag
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #40 on:
January 20, 2017, 08:13:20 AM »
Seems like some very high numbers but all we can do is wait and see. If they can get there claimed numbers great but if I was to ever have one it would definitely need a face lift but that is only my opinion I am sure there are people out there that like this style of air rifle. I think the 3 shot pump action is an awesome idea but do not understand how they can get even close to that velocity with a spring light enough cock as easily as the video I saw. Who knows maybe this air rifle will be the one that changes the way the whole air rifle world works.
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Mayville Michigan
StevenG
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2365
yes
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #41 on:
January 20, 2017, 09:21:59 AM »
I suspect this 1000psi regulator is a typo. I bet it fills to 4500psi and is regulated to 2000psi or more.
So to blatently steal from our resident professor:
bore area of 0.204 sq.in * 2000 psi, that is a force of 408 lbs
To get 702 FPE we need 702 / 408 = 1.72 feet / .50(efficiency correction AKA fudge factor) and we get 3.44 feet = 41.25"
Assuming I am right, we know what that does, this starts looking more reasonable but still like marketing talk. I suspect 702FPE is with a too heavy projectile and the real numbers are lower, of course.
I am sure I did something wrong, but that I will learn from being corrected. I am a dedicated student to the school of hard knocks.
Saboted muzzleloader projectiles are all these "Umarex" Polycase ARX slugs are. There are many other 50cal sabot muzzleloader slugs out there and empty sabots available. They will be much cheaper. They will also allow the shooting of non-trick slugs. The whole point of these silly things is to get claimed velocity up to 900fps+. Don't get me started on their claims of hydrostatic shock....
As to the light cocking, I would imagine a balanced valve or something like it.
As Bob as shown balanced valves teamed with regulators are basically witchcraft.
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West Seneca, NY
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26958
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #42 on:
January 20, 2017, 12:27:11 PM »
I wouldn't mind betting the pressure is 3000 psi or more.... and still a long barrel....
Bob
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Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
dmeguy
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 541
Aim small!
Real Name: Garry
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #43 on:
January 20, 2017, 12:42:26 PM »
I just spent a few minutes looking at what little bit of video is out there. It looks to me like the shroud is somewhere in the neighborhood of 42" long.
I wish Umarex would make an official announcement like they did on the Gauntlet. I really think this is still in the planning stage and they are hesitant to put out anything official. They just rushed it for Shot Show.
I may be in the minority, but I don't mind the look. If the price comes in under $700, like some have said, I can live with it falling somewhat short of the other specs. But I still wish these manufacturers would learn the art of "under promising and over-delivering" instead of vice versa.
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Arkansas City, KS
GAMO CFX .177 | Benjamin Trail NP AW .22 | Crosman 1322 | The Reverend - Cothran Powered Reverse Bottle .30 | Benjamin Discovery .177 | Powermaster 66 | Pumpmaster 760 | Bottled 2250 BNM .22 HPA | Daisy 880 | P17 | AT-44 .177 | .25 Gen 1 Marauder
Gippeto
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 864
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #44 on:
January 20, 2017, 12:45:51 PM »
Would not need to be a balanced valve to have light cocking...I imagine this is somewhat similar to the valve in MJP's 20mm, but don't know for sure (most definitely drawn up as a result of it though lol). Cocking/striker energy could be kept around that of a disco...quite reasonable at any rate. Valve will close if valve spring and striker dwell are tuned to allow it and stay closed during chamber filling if filled from behind the spool...or filled very slowly. Hole in the side is for a fill nipple...
Al
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Alberta, Canada
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #45 on:
January 20, 2017, 02:15:15 PM »
Yeah something like that... I have the feeling you too have used valve like this.
Marko
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26958
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #46 on:
January 20, 2017, 02:16:52 PM »
VERY cool design, Al.... I sure wish I knew more about spool valves....
Bob
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Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #47 on:
January 20, 2017, 02:21:43 PM »
I can tell you it's going to be pita to close it in time.
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #48 on:
January 20, 2017, 05:38:56 PM »
Does the hammer magazine thingy look short for 550gr?
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
Gippeto
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 864
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #49 on:
January 20, 2017, 05:53:28 PM »
I have used blow open valves a time or two.
The .760 I mentioned used a very similar layout, but with a coaxial configuration (chamber around the barrel)...as a result it was a muzzle loader.
Not the most common valve used by spudgun builders, but there are several examples out there...spudgun builders would call it a chamber sealing piston valve.
LD also had one that was again, very similar which he called an assisted valve.
As for getting it to close; If you allow the poppet to close, there will be a point where the forces on the spool balance, and then reverse direction. Filling from the poppet side can then be accomplished by a regulated feed source. Keeping passages small will slow the fill and minimize wastage. Even without filling, if the poppet closes, the spool will still reverse direction and give you at least two shots...had it happen to me.
For about the optimum in low pressure"spudy" valves...
With a little imagination and some time thinking...it COULD be a high pressure valve. Ever heard of an avalauncher???
Al
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Alberta, Canada
Extreme Big Bore
Plinker
Posts: 263
yes
Real Name: Brent Hoag
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #50 on:
January 20, 2017, 08:33:26 PM »
Good luck with that one guys big guys usually are wrong.
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Mayville Michigan
Extreme Big Bore
Plinker
Posts: 263
yes
Real Name: Brent Hoag
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #51 on:
January 20, 2017, 08:36:18 PM »
Gippeto Wrong
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Mayville Michigan
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26958
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #52 on:
January 20, 2017, 08:50:04 PM »
Brent, I have NO idea what you meant to say....
Bob
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
crosman999
MountainSport Airguns
Expert
Posts: 1986
yes
Real Name: Dana
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #53 on:
January 20, 2017, 08:56:40 PM »
I was amazed at the lack of info they gave me on a simple question such as air capacity? Too, was quoted 2" groups at 50 yards. Another thing to ponder on is the skinny 40/48" barrel...hmmm can you say barrel whip? To me it really looked like an awesome movie prop. We shall see!
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SoCal/Ventura
“If we act like prey, they’ll act like predators"
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Gippeto
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 864
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #54 on:
January 20, 2017, 10:25:09 PM »
Quote from: Extreme Big Bore on January 20, 2017, 08:36:18 PM
Gippeto Wrong
In too much of a hurry to explain how?
Please do expand upon that. I believe everything I've said is well within my actual experience, but even so...being wrong is occasionally educational too.
Al
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Alberta, Canada
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #55 on:
January 21, 2017, 02:21:40 AM »
I have looked some of the spud guns way back when I started with air guns. The avalauncher was new to me.
Thanks for sharing that Al
Luck has nothing to do with it Brent, engineering does.
Marko
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
TPL
Member 3000+Fpe Club
Marksman
Posts: 375
Real Name: Timo
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #56 on:
January 21, 2017, 01:36:04 PM »
4500 PSI fill with 1000 PSI pressure drop per first shot would be approximately in line with .50 cal and 700 fpe energy.
Regulated 1000 PSI with that power level impossible.
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Tampere
Tony Fryery
Plinker
Posts: 166
Lurch2824
Real Name: Tony
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #57 on:
January 22, 2017, 11:40:03 AM »
His video here goes better in-depth of more about the gun.
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Lula, Ga
Jager XP .30 Custom
Fx Crown .30
Fx Crown .22
Theoben Rapid .22
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Something that shoots longer range in the future
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #58 on:
January 22, 2017, 12:02:56 PM »
And now it's 4500psi. Spin rate overstabilizing the heavy projectiles.
Everything from 88-550grain. On this special barrel, the first balanced valve airgun in the world.
Still claiming 900fps on 550gr...
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
dyotat100
Expert
Posts: 1095
Re: This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!
«
Reply #59 on:
January 22, 2017, 01:15:10 PM »
Yeah it only gets better as time goes on. They don't even realize what there saying.
What about Rick Ward saying that your going to give up some fps because of the air coming back thru the shroud.
If the companies only had people representing the products that have a clue as to what there saying would be nice
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This supposed new "Hammer" 700FPE, compact, now just get it to production!