Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
Select Gate
READ GTA FORUM RULES BEFORE POSTING
GTA Forum Help Desk
GTA Announcement Gate
Dealer Area
GRIP
AirgunWeb Airgun Videos
Airgun Repository of Knowledge
Vendors and Vendor Videos
AirGun Expo 2021
Airgun Expo 2022
Contests and Giveaways!!!
Welcome New Members
In Memoriam
GTA Contributing Members
Shot Show Videos
Hajimoto Productions
Airgun Detectives
Air Gun Gate
BB Guns and Such
"Bob and Lloyds Workshop"
American/U.S. Air Gun Gates
European/Asian Air Gun Gates
PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside"
Air Archery
Vintage Air Gun Gate
Air Guns And Related Accessories Review Gates
Hunting Gate
Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining
3D printing and files
Buyer's, Seller's & Trader's Comments
Bargain Gate
Back Room
Target Shooting Discussion Gate
Target Match Rules
Shooting Match Gates
Field Target Gates
The Long Range Club
100 Yard Match
Discussions By States
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email
?
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Home
About
Help
Old GTA
Gallery
Search
Stats
Login
Register
Advertise Here
GTA
»
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General
»
American/U.S. Air Gun Gates
»
Crosman-Benjamin Air Gun Gate
»
Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
« previous
next »
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Down
Share This!
Author
Topic: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues (Read 1017 times))
Bubba
Shooter
Posts: 7
yes
Real Name: Rich
Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
on:
June 23, 2016, 08:11:07 PM »
Howdy. HELP ! lol
I bought a Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) with scope.
I used a paper target that is about 8" x 10" and located it a measured 25 yards out.
It shot high and to the left about 4" as it ended up. The attempt to dial in a group provided to go outside of adjustment. I tried shimming the back of the scope up to no avail.
The scope also had a piece of what looked like rubber O ring sticking out so I sent it back.
I then bought a SCP3-U312AOIEW UTG LE ACCUSHOT 3-12X44 SWAT 30mm scope and was recommended to buy a 11mm to Weaver picanny transitional mount. 10" transition to 35 yards.
So in it comes and I set the new base and scope up.
I made a wood V box and placed a target on a wall with a 1/8th inch dot on it and turned the scope 360 degree's to make sure that the indicated settings of zero were correct and the cross hairs per PERFECT at zero.
I set up a target and this is the result.
The groupings are all great.
It is placing the pellet 5.5" below bullseye and to the right 6.5".
I contacted Pyramyd and leapers and got nothing helpful to resolve the issues.
I tried shimming the rear of the scope again and I'll be darned got no change. I am thinking that there is a point that in order to shim that the rings will take over to some degree and try to straighten or bend the scope so I was careful not to get excessive.
I tried exchanging the front ring for the rear ring. No change. All shots hitting the same place and "consistant groups" regardless of configuration.
I am beginning to wonder if maybe it is in the brake barrel hinge mechanism possibly?
Is there anyone here that has this same rifle and scope combo that can tell me what they used as a base or rings to make it work properly?
Thank you in advance for your help.
Rich
Logged
Strasburg Ohio
Airgun.Sniper
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 3392
Re: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
Reply #1 on:
June 23, 2016, 08:40:52 PM »
First off let me say that you may have to high of a mount. Weaver to pictanny and then rings....you may need medium rings...or high...not super duper high. if your running out of elevation this is what Im thinking...maybe so one could come back in and correct
jay
Logged
Benjamin Maruader Gen II .22 cal LW Barrel
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 FFP MOA
Bubba
Shooter
Posts: 7
yes
Real Name: Rich
Re: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
Reply #2 on:
June 23, 2016, 09:04:53 PM »
Jay,
I asked to make sure that the provided base was "medium". Although that sucker looks awefully high to me, I was assured by the Pyramyd rep that the base I have is medium.
Keep in mind two things.
1) The target is only 25 yards away.
2) The base mount is designed for 10" in 35 yards.
and "that" is still not enough compensation for this rifle for some reason.
Puzzling to me anyway.
bummer lol
Logged
Strasburg Ohio
Bubba
Shooter
Posts: 7
yes
Real Name: Rich
Re: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
Reply #3 on:
June 23, 2016, 09:06:17 PM »
Jay.
and thank you sir.
Logged
Strasburg Ohio
Airgun.Sniper
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 3392
Re: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
Reply #4 on:
June 23, 2016, 09:38:14 PM »
Post a picture...So i can see...and are you out of adjustment? The mounts Im going to soon by are the FX no limit mounts
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/FXNoLimitMounts.html
Logged
Benjamin Maruader Gen II .22 cal LW Barrel
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 FFP MOA
Robbie70
Shooter
Posts: 26
yes
Real Name: Robert
Re: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
Reply #5 on:
June 23, 2016, 10:32:39 PM »
I had a similar situation with shooting way to far to the right of center. What i did was remove top half of rings and dropped in a piece
of 3/4" pvc pipe about 40" long. This showed just how far off my rings were even though the scope looked perfect.
I just kept fiddling with rings until pipe was straight down the barrel. Remounted scope and things were much closer.
I'm by no means an expert, but it worked for me.
Logged
Newport, Mi
mobilehomer
Trained professional. Do not try this at home without adult supervision and trained medical staff on site.
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 5137
yes
Real Name: Ken
Re: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
Reply #6 on:
June 24, 2016, 12:36:10 AM »
It is much better explained by others. Look in the GTA library for barrel bending. Center the scope and bend the barrel so that it is within an inch or so at yout twenty five yard target, then use the turrets to do the final adjustment.
Logged
White House, TN
If we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs..... If we had some eggs!!
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=962067
mentolio
Follow me, I'll show you where to crash.
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 715
Ummmmm.....sure
Real Name: Jeff
Re: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
Reply #7 on:
June 25, 2016, 12:43:27 AM »
"10 inches in 35 yards" So is this a "drooper-mount?" If so, are you sure you didn't mount it backwards? Effectively angling the scope up and away from the barrel centerline, instead of the intended angling down towards the barrel. I'm sorry if that seems like a silly question, but I ask because...ahem...I've done it.
I would also ask you to look down the air tube and barrel with it fully closed. I have experienced two new Crosman barrels that had the breech face cut at the wrong angle, actually causing visible barrel droop (gun looked a bit like a boomerang!). Another member (Roadworthy), discovered that his barrel had an excess of material under the breech (the slight "shoulder" where the barrel meets the "cross pin" on the air tube). This extra material was causing his barrel to droop, and he fixed it by carefully removing material until the barrel closed and locked up straight.
Barring the possibility of mechanical problems: a fellow I met last year turned me on to Burris Z Rings. He had them mounted on his MM tuned Ruger Air Magnum, and he said they did NOT budge. The Z Rings have a plastic insert that actually allows you to "offset" the scope, allowing you to point it down, up, and/or to either side (slightly). This gent said he was able to mostly zero his scope just by tweaking the offset inserts, then fine-tuned it with the scope turrets requiring very little actual adjustment. I am going to order a set with multiple offset inserts (sold in 10 degree increments, I think) for my next project. Might be worth your while to check them out.
Sorry, almost forgot: I've also had success with the RWS Lockdown one piece mount. It's for a dove tail, has 20degrees of barrel droop comp, and also has stop screws for holes in the receiver. They're pretty cheap, and once you tighten it all down, that sucker doesn't move! Being one piece, of course, makes it a little tough to use on all scopes (compacts can be problematic). Best of luck!
«
Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 12:47:15 AM by mentolio
»
Logged
Gloucester County, NJ
If I shot half as good as you, you'd still shoot twice as good as me!
Webley Valuemax .20: airgunning's best kept secret...shhhhh!
Bubba
Shooter
Posts: 7
yes
Real Name: Rich
Re: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
Reply #8 on:
June 25, 2016, 02:20:50 PM »
I AM GOING TO USE THIS POST TO RESPOND TO ALL THAT HAVE TRIED TO HELP...AND HAVE !
MUCH APPRECIATED !
Mentolio:
Yes it is a drooper mount. Nope, didn't mount it backwards. The rifle was just off that much. I had two conversations with Crosman and explained everything that I had tried after speaking to Pyramyd, Leapers, all of YUNS ( LOL ) and Crosman finally said that while it is not a common problem, it is one that has surfaced before and I am sending the rifle back for replacement.
I have a neighbor that in the military was we'll just say "very proficient" with a rifle. I discussed this with him although a pellet rifle and his first rattle out of the box was, "Well this all could just be you". LOL
I said yes that COULD be BUT, The groups are consistent tight groups where they are when I use the "zero" cross hairs of the scope. If I use the MIL DOT's TO CORRECT and sight 5 MIL DOTS to the right and two MIL DOT's up, I get a tight group ON the bulls eye.
He said, "oh". LOL
So it IS the rifle system. LOL
Those MIL DOT's are handy to have !
JAY.. suggested that I was stacked too high with all things present. After looking closely at the rail and how it is designed, I found at last four possibilities that could provide for slop or deviation.
I checked all screws to be tight, re-arranged the rings in every possible configuration to seek out a difference and got "some" but not enough to overcome and resolve the issues.
BARREL BENDING: It is my opinion if it gets to the point that the last report is to bend your barrel, then the rifle should be sent back to the manufacturer to get one that is right to start with.
It IS still in warranty.
If it were out of warranty then that would be something to consider an thanks you for that suggestion and referral.
SO HERE IS MY PLAN OF ACTION FOR NOW:
I am keeping the UTG SWAT scope.
I am sending back the rifle to get a replacement.
In advance, I am giving the "replacement rifle" the benefit of the doubt that it will be in spec, and I should not need a barrel droop compensator rail.
I am ordering from Leaper a 11mm dove tail to 30mm pair of rings that they have. I already know that these rings at the 11mm base do not have the "cavity height" that is needed to clear the "rounded barrel" top and I will use my dremmel to make those suckers custom fit and work.
By that I am eliminating all of the slop potentials that exist with the additional rail.
It is difficult to find a pair of rings that are the combination of 11m dove tail to 30mm scope, have the height that is needed for the scope spec and also has the cavity to clear the rounded barrel so the ring base fits properly. The other option is to shave off the radius of the top of the barrel but that would void the warranty and if the exchange rifle also has issues, that would screw up returning "that" one.
TRUEING THE ALIGNMENT OF THE RINGS:
I have found lots of info and discussion on that on the internet. Wheeler Engineering makes a alignment kit but then two people have posed discussion about that which were very valid points and questioned if that kit was "complete".
Robbie70
Offered using a length of PVC to check for alignment of the rings against the angle differences of the barrel and PVC pipe.
I LIKE THAT IDEA !
That gave me an idea that is a direct extension from Roby70's.
I am going to ask a friend of mine that is a machinist to make me up a piece of steel rod, 30mm in diameter and to a length yet to be determined.
The length will probably be to match the end of the barrel and provide about 6" in excess or past the rear ring.
On the end which will match the business end of the barrel I will have him drill in a on-center indentation.
On the back end on the end I will have a small handle or knurled grip just large enough for my hand to grip on to.
So there is the tool.
My thinking is, when I go to install the ring bases, I will snug them in then back off the screws just enough to allow for them to "jiggle" a little.
Lay in the 30mm rod and match the front end of the rod to the business end of the barrel.
Install the top of the rings to the point that they slightly "jiggle".
Massage and spin the rod in the rings until they feel settled in.
Check the rod and barrel for alignment using the barrel bore and centered indentation at the end of the rod.
Tighten down ring bases.
Apply some light abrasive to the rod and lap the rings until about 80% slightly more or less of the inside of the rings are scored by the abrasive.
Recheck the bore/rod alignment for trueism.
Install scope.
That would tell you up front how far off the system is, help to align the two ring sets, true the rings and bingo bango.
That's the plan. LOL
Comments, discussion, idea's all appreciated by all.
Rich
Logged
Strasburg Ohio
Bubba
Shooter
Posts: 7
yes
Real Name: Rich
Re: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
Reply #9 on:
June 25, 2016, 02:39:01 PM »
I also had another thought which may be dangerous but am going to provide it here.
Seems to be a lot of complaint about keeping a scope from moving once screwed down.
I am going to research this.
3M makes a 1 to 3 "micron" or 4000 to 8000 "grit" polishing paper. It is wet or dry. I have seen sheets of this used to polish chromed drums used in printing.
My thinking is that "if" this is thin enough, being not that abrasive, pieces could be fitted between the clamps and have enough grit to keep the scope in place and not negatively effect the trueness or alignments.
This does not compensate for screw going lose but would compensate for smooth surface against smooth surface sliding.
Just a though to add.
Logged
Strasburg Ohio
Bubba
Shooter
Posts: 7
yes
Real Name: Rich
Re: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
Reply #10 on:
June 25, 2016, 09:40:31 PM »
I went down to Lowes and got two different types of levels. One is a aluminum cased short bubble level and the other is a dial faced gauge showing 1 degree increments.
I used both in case one was off.
Being a break barrel rifle I ran both levels from front to rear at three points of the rear portion of the barrel then did the same in three locations upon the front portion of the barrel.
I learn this.
The rear portion of the barrel "top of barrel surface" anyway, is sloped or curved downward about 1/4 to 1/2 degree.
The front portion of this barrel is sloped downward to the tune of about 3/4 degree.
When I ran the math and projected that "out bound" to 25 yards, that accounted for the approximate 6" of drop from bullseye.
I ran the same check on the left side of the "front barrel only" to learn that it also is bent to the left about 1/2 degree. That accounts for the consistent 3" to the left of bullseye.
THERE lays the root of my problems and that is how I checked it to find that out.
The "difference" of deviation is not "at the joint" or hinge as I would have expected.
The barrel is bent. down and to the left.
I am not sure how you can set up without having some pretty significant equipment to rebend or straighten a short barrel 1/2 to 1 degree and do justice.
But this rifle is going back to the manufacturer anyway. LOL
Rich
Logged
Strasburg Ohio
Airgun.Sniper
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 3392
Re: Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues
«
Reply #11 on:
June 25, 2016, 10:54:33 PM »
Hopefully your next one wont have the same issue.
Cheers
Jay
Logged
Benjamin Maruader Gen II .22 cal LW Barrel
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 FFP MOA
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Up
« previous
next »
GTA
»
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General
»
American/U.S. Air Gun Gates
»
Crosman-Benjamin Air Gun Gate
»
Benjamin Titan DP ( NP ) zeroing issues