Are springers worth the trouble?
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Are springers worth the trouble?
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Topic: Are springers worth the trouble? (Read 4774 times))
jim p
Marksman
Posts: 328
yes
Real Name: jim
Are springers worth the trouble?
«
on:
January 19, 2017, 08:56:28 PM »
I am having some more success shooting the Hatsan 95 vortex qe. It seems that the recoil of the springer or ram just ruins the accuracy of the gun. I was shooting and I started looking after the shot to see where the crosshairs were located on the target. I noticed that they were settling about 3 mil dots low and 3 mil dots right. I started varying my hold and cheek placement on the gun and was able to reduce the final position to about 1 mil dot low and 1 mil dot right. All of a sudden my groups improved and I was getting consistent .5" groups at 20 yards.
So if you are shooting off bags, look to see where your cross hairs are after the shot. This may help you learn how to hold better.
I am thinking about building a shooting cradle of some type to see if I can get the cross hairs to remain on target after the shot. If I can get something like this my groups may get very tight.
If you have done something like this please tell me what you did.
The more that I learn about air guns the more the multi pump guns appeal to me.
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alabama jacksons gap
jusanothajoe
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Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #1 on:
January 19, 2017, 09:41:27 PM »
Might want to try a less hold sensitive gun ? They are out there.
But they usually cost more in my case. I hate hold sensitive air guns.
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Columbiana AL
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fv22
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Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #2 on:
January 19, 2017, 09:42:06 PM »
Are springers worth the trouble? After being into Powder burners and away from pellet guns for about 40 years I decided to get back into airguns so I could shoot at home rather than driving 45 minutes each way to my gun club all the time. Didn't want to spend lots of money to start but did want something that had decent power. Benjamin was a well respected name way back when so I decided on a Trail NP .22 that I've had for the last 7 or 8 months.
When I first got it I thought it was a piece of garbage, couldn't keep my groups under 3 or 4 inches at 25 yards. Lot's of reading, lot's of practice, several different types of pellets and I started to get better. Just when I started to get half way decent the scope broke, that's really rare, NOT! With a new scope and lots more practice I can now keep about 75% of my groups under 1/2", sometimes way under, just today I shot 2, 3 shot, one hole groups, also in the same session shot 2, 3 shot groups about 3/4". WHY??? This was out of 8 groups that I shot, all others were about 1/2". Can't understand why I can't keep ALL my groups small though. Also find some days when I am lucky to get 1 or 2 groups under 1/2".
Overall though I have to say seeing the improvement from when I first got it to now has been satisfying. So back to the question, are springer's worth the trouble. At this point I have to say absolutely, positively, maybe! I do generally like the gun but reading about PCP's on this forum has me doing some serious thinking. I have a feeling one of those is in my future...
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Gulf Breeze FL.
Underdog
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Real Name: Jim
Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #3 on:
January 19, 2017, 10:29:20 PM »
Quote from: jim p on January 19, 2017, 08:56:28 PM
Are springers worth the trouble?
Depends on the day!
If you're shooting bad, then no. If you're shooting good then yes!
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North Georgia
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a1rgunz
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Posts: 551
Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #4 on:
January 19, 2017, 10:35:37 PM »
Powerful springers can be very frustrating, but the time you spend at the trigger, learning to be consistent with your hold will pay dividends in the long run. The discipline you get from shooting a springer will carry over to any airgun or firearm you shoot in the future.
Of course, if you are interested in a multi pump, I have to encourage you to get one of those too. Each type of airgun has its own drawbacks and charms, one can never have too many
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dave2288
Dave
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Posts: 347
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Real Name: David
Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #5 on:
January 19, 2017, 10:42:33 PM »
I personally like springers the most. I like the challenge of needing to use the artillery hold. Sometimes thats quite a tough task. Inclined shot with my patriot, for example...heavy gun, how do you let it recoil in a linear fashion? Hold it away from your shoulder just slightly, with a light grip on both hands. Sure, i could grab a multi pump or pcp, but i dont like point and shoot guns...im a steady shot, i need more to enjoy shooting than just that. But some dont like having to relearn how to shoot just for 1 type of gun
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tobyhanna, pa
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BenjiHunter
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Semper ubi, sub ubi.
Real Name: Stefan
Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #6 on:
January 19, 2017, 10:46:14 PM »
Quote from: jim p on January 19, 2017, 08:56:28 PM
Are springers worth the trouble?
Without any doubt, yes they are.
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Surahammar, Sweden
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TwiceHorn
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Real Name: Mark
Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #7 on:
January 19, 2017, 10:51:08 PM »
What are you shooting off of? Good shooters "follow through" and can call their shots, meaning they watch the sight picture through and after the shot. The sight/reticle rarely if ever ends up on the bull after the shot, people just wobble, that's the way it is. But if you are staying dialed in during your shot, you should be able to squeeze the trigger a the right moment in the wobble so the POI is pretty close to where you want it. And when you don't, you will know, but not necessarily by where the sight picture ends up, rather where it is and where it is going when you squeeze off the shot.
Now, if you are shooting off a rest, the ending sight picture might tend to indicate something of a problem. But shooting a springer off a rest presents its own set of potential accuracy problems that aren't a problem with "free" holds, provided you are not over-gripping somewhere.
I have never owned one of the more economy springers or a magnum one, but from reading newb posts on here, I'm thinking starting your springer career with a magnum or an untuned Chinese springer is a really bad idea. Hatsans and Gamos may fall into this category, but I don't want to unduly slander a brand.
You may be better off to get a Melick tuned Chinese rifle, even something slow and smooth like an XS12, or plunge into a Diana 34 or a Weihrauch and learn to shoot with the artillery hold and a rifle with a decent trigger and relatively smooth shot cycle and gain some confidence before moving to a magnum or a rifle with a more suspect shot cycle or trigger (that is, a hold sensitive gun).
The artillery hold requires breaking some powder burner habits, but it really isn't that difficult.
«
Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 11:01:30 PM by TwiceHorn
»
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Texas
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Taso1000
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Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #8 on:
January 19, 2017, 11:01:33 PM »
Yes they are worth it but, I feel, with conditions. I love the simplicity of a springer. Cock, load and shoot. I think they are better suited to low and medium pellet velocities and energies. I think they add to the shooting experience by slowing down the pace. I'm never in a hurry to get my target shooting done and being more relaxed helps you concentrate on breathing, sight picture, trigger and follow through to become a better shooter.
I feel most higher energy magnum class springers have a harsher firing cycle and are real rough on lesser scopes. Plus they are usually harder to shoot accurately.
If I need more power I will grab one of my pcp's.
I would love to see a single stoke pneumatic in the 12 to 18 fpe range. I'll be first in line for that one.
Thanks,
Taso
«
Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 11:05:23 PM by taso1000
»
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Orland Park, Illinois
TwiceHorn
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 754
Real Name: Mark
Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #9 on:
January 19, 2017, 11:26:23 PM »
More to the point than my previous ramble, it sounds like you are mastering the right hold for your gun. 0.5" groups at 20 yards is pretty good for a hunting type rifle, so mission accomplished, congratulations. You have kind of been through the magnum springer wringer, so to speak.
You said you varied the hold and cheek "weld," What did you do?
With a center-fire powder burner, you hear a lot about cheek weld and it's important to snug up so you don't get your face bruised and placement needs to be repeatable (same place every time), but that has nothing to do with pressure.
With a springer, you still need to be conscious of cheek position (it needs to stay the same), but you need not and should not "weld" your cheek on the comb with center-fire-type pressure. This is one of the key aspects of the artillery hold.
The other two are not to grip the pistol grip and not to grip the forearm. It is also helpful to support the forearm at the balance point of the rifle. You shouldn't have to grasp the pistol grip to squeeze the trigger, but with some awful triggers, I can see how you might need to or feel you need to.
Some of these rules can be violated and may even need to be depending on the particular rifle, but these are the three keys to beginning to shoot a springer well.
«
Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 11:29:09 PM by TwiceHorn
»
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Texas
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lefteyeshot
without hope, without fear
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Real Name: Tim
Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #10 on:
January 19, 2017, 11:59:22 PM »
Read up on artillery hold. Seeing where the cross hairs are at after the shot is follow through. With some of my powerful springer keeping the cross hair on the poa is about impossible but trying to works. My Silent Cat was accurate and shot tight but impossible to keep on poa but just trying helped. Now it has a GRT trigger and is a tac driver.
When I shoot it feels like I'm barely touching the gun and I concentrate on the trigger just before it breaks.
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BenjiHunter
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Real Name: Stefan
Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #11 on:
January 20, 2017, 12:14:53 AM »
When you don't have to think about the process of shooting a springer, that's when you have the best results.
But it's going to take a lot of practice.
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Surahammar, Sweden
Webley Patriot .25 . 30FPE
Benjamin 392, Leapers 3-9X32 BugBuster. 12FPE
Mac1 Steroid 392, Leapers 3-9X32 BugBuster. 22FPE
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bReTt
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Real Name: BrEtT
Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #12 on:
January 20, 2017, 01:01:01 AM »
Are springers worth the trouble?
I certainly think so! They can be a challenge and frustrating. One poster here was sharing how frustrated he was getting with his springer shooting for groups. He changed gears and started shooting for fun instead of a tiny hole on paper and it gave him some much needed refreshment with his springer. I find that I need that too. Sometimes I shoot for tiny holes in paper, sometimes I set up reactive targets and just go for that. If the paper gives me fits I move on. I know that I can do it and I know that the rifle can too, I am just having an off day and then I try to make it light. I find it very relaxing to have that slow methodical pace of cock, load, shoot, cock, load, shoot, cock, load, shoot.
Be patient and keep at it, it will come.
Having said this, there is nothing wrong with not loving your springer. I recently got into PCP and I have some pumpers too, they all have their day on the bench and I enjoy each one for what they are. If I could have only one, it would be one of my springers.
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PNW
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limbshaker
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Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #13 on:
January 20, 2017, 01:16:53 AM »
Are springers worth the trouble? ----- Yes, absolutely, and there is no "trouble" with the right gun.
Overpowered lightweight springers are the worst case scenario for trying to attain accuracy.
A quality made, properly setup, and properly functioning springer in the 10-12fpe range in .177 should be easy to shoot accurately without needing you to jump through hoops.
If you demand more power, go up in caliber, and also rifle weight to keep the same ease of shooting.
These are my rules of thumb I try to stick to and I've had pretty good results so far.
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Decatur, AL
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GumpIsrael
Eye Sea Yoo
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Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #14 on:
January 20, 2017, 01:23:24 AM »
Yes.... I believe they are.
I get a real sense of accomplishment from hitting my target with my super hold sensitive gun.
It takes a little while to learn the artillery hold, and I still have my off days once in a while.
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Austin, Texas
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Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #15 on:
January 20, 2017, 03:29:12 AM »
I'm new to Springers! I love the challenge . I'm getting very good with my Titan .177 many Eoros have fallen to it, two more Tuesday! Now my Kodiak has been more of a challenge. Just upgraded the scope so expect better shooting. The scope that came with it was totally useless!
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Mountain Home, ID, USA
Hoosier Daddy
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Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #16 on:
January 20, 2017, 07:11:58 AM »
I too like my Springers, I also shoot Pumpers and CO2, Don't have the "Disposable income" for a PCP and all the accessories needed for one.
In the beginning, I was skeptical of all the hype on pellet choice. I thought I was not good enough that a different "Quality Pellet" would really make that much of a difference.
I learned there is a break-in period so I chalked up my huge patterns to that. I was using the low end Daisy and Crosman pointed as well as Crosman Destroyers, and was literally getting a 5" pattern at 20Y.... but I kept telling myself I was "Breaking it in". After those 750 pellets were finally gone I bought a 500 Tin of CPHP's (Crosman Premier Hollow Points), then the CPUM's (Crosman Premier Ultra Magnum) Domes. Quite an improvement is an understatement! I could actually hit something , and repeatable. Groups were about an inch or two at the most and could stretch out to 30Y. So I started to believe this pellet
Hyp
e and felt my guns were finally "broke in".
Then came the JSB Sampler Pack... That clinched it. The same afternoon, 5 shot groups from each of the selections provided in the Sampler, repeating over and over, and it was clear. My gun hated some and loved another...
I still keep a tin or two of the CPHP's because they are good enough for everyday plinking. But when I want to push myself to hold the springer accurately the JSB Exact Jumbo Heavies in 18.13g are my pellet for best punching paper in tight sub 1" groups at 30Y with my .22.
Moral of all this is, Shoot 3-4 tins though your gun. You can use the "Wal-mart selection" to just shoot often and get used to your gun.
Don't be too hung up on groups at first. Seriously, it is fun but don't get frustrated. Some guy's don't even mount their scopes at first!
Then get yourself some GOOD pellets. It really does make a difference!
«
Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 07:16:13 AM by Hoosier Daddy
»
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Kendallville, IN
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maraudinglizard
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Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #17 on:
January 20, 2017, 07:17:00 AM »
They are worth it. Practice and the right mind set can go a long way. Not only having to find the right pellet for them but finding the right hold is just as crucial. Some do well with being all snuggled up on while others prefer a light hold. I have my good days and bad days with them. If it was a perfect one holing gun I would be bored silly with it.
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Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #18 on:
January 20, 2017, 07:40:26 AM »
When "IT" hits the fan.You'll be glad you have a springer..... Their Quiet/self contained/lethal at close range/no need for elect./generators/compressors/
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Moneta Virginia
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N.E.Dan
New England Dan ie NEDan
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Dan
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Re: Are springers worth the trouble?
«
Reply #19 on:
January 20, 2017, 07:58:18 AM »
The answer to your question really depends on your definition of worth and trouble.
Ask yourself.
Worth;
If you define worth as owning a totally self sufficient relativity inexpensive gun that is very capable in well trained hands then worth is a definite yes!
Trouble;
Trouble boils down to how you view learning? How much you enjoy training, discipline being extremely self competitive and if you find accomplishing each step rewarding.
If you can agree with my two above definitions Then Springers/Ram guns are worth the trouble and rewarding.
If you don't then find a good pumper or save up and or spend a chunk of your nest egg, and get a pcp and all that goes with it.
I personally enjoy both for very different reasons.
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Are springers worth the trouble?