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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => American/U.S. Air Gun Gates => Crosman-Benjamin Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Dick Tracey on January 18, 2013, 11:21:46 PM

Title: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: Dick Tracey on January 18, 2013, 11:21:46 PM
I was reading about the new MK 177 that crosman announced.  I is showing 750 FPS with pellets and has a blurb about new valve technology.  It also has a rifled steel barrel.  I wounder if they are using a flat top piston?  If not would be courious to see what they are doing with the valve.  May have some new goodies to use in a years time when we are able to get ahold of the parts.  Note that the M4-177 is rated at 600 FPS for pellets.

DT
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: birdmove on January 19, 2013, 02:35:48 AM
  I have seen photos of the new gun. It is totally redesigned. Wonder if this means good deals on new leftovers of the older model?
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: AmericanPsycho on January 19, 2013, 12:29:35 PM
If this model is offered in black I'll be picking one up.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: Nate the airgunner on January 19, 2013, 11:12:51 PM
Maybe a Benji/Sheri Platfrom with a new outfit?
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: squallywally on January 20, 2013, 01:34:25 PM

I doubt this is a replacement. I read that the m4-177 was an incredible seller. I imagine they won't discontinue it for a long time.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: ogre8472 on January 21, 2013, 01:59:23 AM
Its a beautiful rifle for sure. Its a FN SCAR replica and they did a wonderful job keeping the details. I didn't notice the higher velocity on the release.  I'll have to take another look. :)
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: Remo on January 21, 2013, 09:38:52 AM
Don't hold your breath on the Crosman velocity claims.  The M4-177 is basically a 500+ fps gun at 10 pumps with an 8g pellet.  Any M4-177 shooting over 500 fps meets Crosman's QC standard, according to  their customer service/support people.  A little honesty in marketing would be a pleasant change.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: blue rocket on January 21, 2013, 03:22:23 PM
Wow, this gun looks great, ill have to pick one up for sure... Looks like it's going to be released in June....
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: D14Jeff on January 21, 2013, 04:26:25 PM
i looked at the M4-177 but it has sooooooo much plastic :( .... and it looks like the MK177 is more of the same :(

but putting my prejudiced aside ........ and assuming (i know) that they will use the same grade of plastic .....
will it hold a scope securely ? will it need to be tightened from time to time as the scope mount compresses the plastic Picatinny rail ???
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: BerkshireHunter on January 31, 2013, 07:03:26 PM
i looked at the M4-177 but it has sooooooo much plastic :( .... and it looks like the MK177 is more of the same :(

but putting my prejudiced aside ........ and assuming (i know) that they will use the same grade of plastic .....
will it hold a scope securely ? will it need to be tightened from time to time as the scope mount compresses the plastic Picatinny rail ???
The plastic and dimensions have me a tad worried. Looks to be almost exactly the same size as the M4-177, and probably uses a slightly altered valve. I've got imagine they just made it into more of a flat-top shape, hopefully someone can find out soon. So, am I the only one who doubts it will shoot faster than the 2100 at 10 pumps?  ;D

If it does have a rubberized butt pad, that would be a nice touch, but not so if it cost $100! :o  I would like it to have a longer LOP than the M4, but it's probably the same. I wonder what they'll change, because the pistol grip doesn't even look textured.

My 2nd thought was -if they have a new powerplant, will they continue making the popular M4, and it would only make sense to use that valve. And heck, since the 1377, 760, recruit, torrent, 2289 and 1322, essentially use the same valve, will they get it?

Lastly, when do you guys think it will be released?? Wasn't the M4-177 rather officially announced around August and then hit store shelves in late October?? I don't know...

And my pie in the sky request for this line -better materials!! I believe crosman just came out with a nylon fiber glass M4 airsoft rifle with metal buffer tube and quality parts -I think for a little over $100. That's what the M4-177 cost when it came out, offer an upgraded model for the pellet guns!! Or at least have compatible parts through the parts department.  :(  BTW, airsoft is rotten imho. Take heed Crosman!
(http://www.replicaairguns.com/storage/post-images/Crosman%20MK-177%20Right%20Side.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1358977302910)

(http://www.replicaairguns.com/storage/thumbnails/7262430-21730034-thumbnail.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1358977328412)
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: Dick Tracey on January 31, 2013, 07:30:54 PM
The MK 177 looks longer than the M4 177 and also the pump handle looks longer.  That is subjective on my part but it just appears to be that way.

DT
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: squallywally on February 13, 2013, 10:58:30 AM
I am concerned too with the msr77np. At $275 and 300, I would hope it isn't just a vantage np wrapped with a M4-177 type body and a doubling of the price because it looks like a M-16.At those prices it should be more like a Benji Trail that looks like a M-16.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: D14Jeff on February 13, 2013, 11:39:01 AM
if it can reach benji pumper fps #'s and they make it in .22 for close to $100 or less .. and it's accurate , i bet it would be a huge seller for them !
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: squallywally on February 13, 2013, 03:26:19 PM
Only if the magazine was auto indexing like the Baikal mp61. That would be cool for the mk177 as well as the m4-177.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: Sheridan 74 on February 13, 2013, 07:15:51 PM
It looks like another dressed up 760 that has been tweaked to bring up the velocity a bit. It's actually an inch shorter than the M4 177 and about the same weight.

MSRP around $129


Specifications Overview

Model Number30110
 Pellet VelocityUp to 750 fps
BB VelocityUp to 800 fps
 Weight3.5
 Length33
 MechanismBolt Action
 Power SourceVariable Pump
 Caliber.177
 Pellet Capacity5 Shot Clip
BB Reservoir350
 BarrelRifled Steel
 Front SightElevation Adjustable Pin
 Rear SightDual aperture windage adjustable peep sight
 SafetyCrossbolt
 ColorTan
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: AmericanPsycho on February 13, 2013, 08:08:42 PM
It looks like another dressed up 760 that has been tweaked to bring up the velocity a bit. It's actually an inch shorter than the M4 177 and about the same weight.

MSRP around $129


Specifications Overview

Model Number30110
 Pellet VelocityUp to 750 fps
BB VelocityUp to 800 fps
 Weight3.5
 Length33
 MechanismBolt Action
 Power SourceVariable Pump
 Caliber.177
 Pellet Capacity5 Shot Clip
BB Reservoir350
 BarrelRifled Steel
 Front SightElevation Adjustable Pin
 Rear SightDual aperture windage adjustable peep sight
 SafetyCrossbolt
 ColorTan

The only thing that not worthy is the tan color.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: blue rocket on February 13, 2013, 11:25:58 PM
^ it's going to be offered in tan and black.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: AmericanPsycho on February 14, 2013, 01:46:58 AM
^ it's going to be offered in tan and black.

And you know this how?
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: Dick Tracey on February 14, 2013, 12:19:00 PM
^ it's going to be offered in tan and black.

And you know this how?

His 'CRYSTAL BALL' is running about 89.67% accurate.  I told him to clean it and accuracy would get better!
Title: Longer Pump handle says 2200 reskin
Post by: TimmyMac1 on February 14, 2013, 01:01:27 PM
I think it is A 2200 In disguise. The valve technology thing is puzzler as is the speed. A 2200 will never see 750 without resorting to plastic BB's or some such Fiction projectal.
When salesman reach for the 4 grainer to rationalize speed claims it makes me want to slap them but Gamo is the one that started this game and if others don't play along the Gamo people win. The game is theirs to win as the 4 grainer is their ball. You can't blame them as the speed diff in a springer will be like 300 fps for doing 4 grain where the Pump pnuematic boost will be a paltry 100 fps for cutting the projectal mass in half.
Springers keep going up in energy and velocity peaks usually with the lightest projectals as energy transfer is nearly instantaneous and heat losses almost negligible. To bad light ammo goes nowhere compared to pellets with mass so the energy is quicklyy lost to the resistance going Mach Plus offers. At distance the light stuff is worthless but the velocity claims get the newbie by the short hairs everytime due to his enthusiasm for the 4 digits Airguns are obviously capable of now.
Marketing has these salesman showui ng the same Puistol now three shows in a rowq and they have no released same. Everytime the thing will be 700 fps and it is so far vaporAir like so many salesmans claims of the past. The engineering department can not repeal the laws of physics no matter how long they take. Merchandising is never related to reality or the cheerleaders that are salesman would have much more to offer.
I think this look is what sells but it is not anything I can sell as I know what is under there and it isn't special.

TimmyMac1
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: Remo on February 14, 2013, 01:26:13 PM
Here's a philosophy question relevant to Crosman's velocity claims by this disappointed M4-177 owner (see post above):

If you speak an untruth to someone who expects it, is it still a lie?
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: AmericanPsycho on February 14, 2013, 06:09:14 PM
^ it's going to be offered in tan and black.

And you know this how?

His 'CRYSTAL BALL' is running about 89.67% accurate.  I told him to clean it and accuracy would get better!

Not good enough for me.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: BerkshireHunter on February 14, 2013, 07:02:14 PM

Not good enough for me.
I remember seeing some official source saying it would be in black. Can't see why it wouldn't...
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: AmericanPsycho on February 14, 2013, 08:11:45 PM

Not good enough for me.
I remember seeing some official source saying it would be in black. Can't see why it wouldn't...

I don't either.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: squallywally on February 14, 2013, 08:30:49 PM
O.D. Green Baby, come on!
Title: Crosman new MK 177 announced in black
Post by: Remo on February 15, 2013, 10:58:23 AM
From Crosman's website:

ROCHESTER, New York, (January 15, 2013) –Crosman Corporation, long known for innovation and quality in the shooting sports, has introduced the new, MK-177™ multi-pump, bolt action, .177 caliber BB/pellet air rifle. The dual ammo MK-177 features new, Crosman® valve technology providing increased velocities with less effort.

“People want airguns that are uncomplicated, powerful and swift,” says Crosman Product Manager, Tom Clark. “The valve revolutionizes ease of pumping with the added benefit of providing impressive speed. Simply put, the new, MK-177 air rifle offers less work and more fun,” he said.

The MK-177 is light, maneuverable and features all-weather construction with a rifled steel barrel for added accuracy. Its fully adjustable sights and velocities of up to 800 fps with BBs and up to 750 fps with pellets make it an ideal multi-use air rifle. Pump the gun three times for indoor target practice or up to ten times to achieve higher velocity for outdoor shooting and pest control. The MK-177 is fed by a 5-shot pellet clip, or pour up to 300+ BBs into the internal magazine. Every time you pull back the ergonomic bolt handle and push it forward, another BB loads. It has a full Picatinny rail on top for your choice of optics and side rails for additional accessories. “Customize this airgun with all your favorite accessories,” says Clark. “Extra storage areas are found under the rubber recoil pad,” he said.

The MK-177 is assembled in the USA and is available in black or tan. A kit version includes a red dot sight, soft-sided case, 2 pellet clips, BBs, pellets and shooting glasses.

The MK-177 has an MSRP of $129, while the kit version retails for $179. Retail availability is expected in June, 2013.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177 announced in black
Post by: AmericanPsycho on February 15, 2013, 12:25:36 PM
From Crosman's website:

ROCHESTER, New York, (January 15, 2013) –Crosman Corporation, long known for innovation and quality in the shooting sports, has introduced the new, MK-177™ multi-pump, bolt action, .177 caliber BB/pellet air rifle. The dual ammo MK-177 features new, Crosman® valve technology providing increased velocities with less effort.

“People want airguns that are uncomplicated, powerful and swift,” says Crosman Product Manager, Tom Clark. “The valve revolutionizes ease of pumping with the added benefit of providing impressive speed. Simply put, the new, MK-177 air rifle offers less work and more fun,” he said.

The MK-177 is light, maneuverable and features all-weather construction with a rifled steel barrel for added accuracy. Its fully adjustable sights and velocities of up to 800 fps with BBs and up to 750 fps with pellets make it an ideal multi-use air rifle. Pump the gun three times for indoor target practice or up to ten times to achieve higher velocity for outdoor shooting and pest control. The MK-177 is fed by a 5-shot pellet clip, or pour up to 300+ BBs into the internal magazine. Every time you pull back the ergonomic bolt handle and push it forward, another BB loads. It has a full Picatinny rail on top for your choice of optics and side rails for additional accessories. “Customize this airgun with all your favorite accessories,” says Clark. “Extra storage areas are found under the rubber recoil pad,” he said.

The MK-177 is assembled in the USA and is available in black or tan. A kit version includes a red dot sight, soft-sided case, 2 pellet clips, BBs, pellets and shooting glasses.

The MK-177 has an MSRP of $129, while the kit version retails for $179. Retail availability is expected in June, 2013.

Thanks. I'm definately getting one in June. Might get the kit version depending on if there's anything that's useful to me in it.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: tworr on March 08, 2013, 02:43:28 PM
I have to admit that I was a little excited when I saw the speeds listed.
Pellet Velocity - Up to 750 fps
BB Velocity - Up to 800 fps

I can still dream right? I just wish they would put out a 22 caliber pumper.
Bring back the 2200 or give us something new with power!!

The color does not bother me at all. In fact I would rather have the this tan than the black or the dark brown.

It's amazing what you can do with Rit dye. I've only found one plastic so far that would not accept the dye. When you do 20 or 60 one second dips into a boiling mixture of Rit dye and water the plastic will absorb the dye color. Tan works the best because of how light it is. Black will absorb the color, but it will always be so dark that you can't see the color.

This is how the dark brown from a 1377 came out.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r212/tworr/Misc/Air%20Power/1377%20build/IMG_1890_sm.jpg)
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: Daveman on May 18, 2013, 03:33:08 PM
Yea I was going to buy one of these but right now in tan it just looks too cheap to me. I'll wait for the Crosman MTR77.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: xXcrosmanhunterXx on May 18, 2013, 04:27:57 PM
I might buy one. The way I look at it is, if the M4-177 was basically the 760 power plant , I'm guessing the MK177 is based off the 2100 power plant.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: mikem5000 on June 13, 2013, 02:12:12 AM
Just ordered the Crosman MTR77 NP Scoped Air Rifle because I got an email today saying they are in stock and ready to ship. Even though you get free shipping on 150.00 or more I saved a little bit more by using this code for PA ....PYRAMYD-NRA .
So got it for 175 and change. Hopefully it will live up to my expectations even though it is .177 If it ever comes out in .22 and shoots good in the .177 I will be all over it in the future.
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: Brewerja on June 14, 2013, 09:35:39 AM
Yeah, same here! Im holding out for a .22 version or atleast for somebody to buy one and figure oit what parts we can buy from crosman and convert it into a .22! If its 18FPE like they claim, it will make a fun plinker put yo 50ish yds no doubt! Im slightly concerned with the amounys of plastic but as long as the action is all metal construction (which it appears to be) i feel ok about it. Im keeping my fingers crossed for that .22 cal! Maybe a handfull of is should get a "group request" going and send it to crosman. They are a buisness, and typically buisnesses listen to their customers if it means better sales. :) just a thought
Title: Fast is King!
Post by: TimmyMac1 on June 14, 2013, 10:16:58 AM
For every sane person wanting 800 FPS in .22 for a manageable 16-18 FPE they have 100 Gamo converts asking for 1200 FPS with PBA. The Speed thing has a gob of momentum and the only plus side for team sanity is the muffled report of a sub transonic springer. Discharge noise from a 1200 fps gun is harsh and so is the felt recoil when the piston slams home with inadequate pellet back pressure.
Marketing simply ignors the facts and sells on raw speed. It doesn't matter the knowledgebase here the Crosman team know where the consumer is coming from and if it doesn't do 1000 FPS in .22 you do not have the consumers attention. He'd prefer Mach plus but he will settle for four digits.
Nobody ever lost money betting on the ignorance of the average American consumer. Present company excluded as we represent the other end of the spectrum from the knownothings. Crosman listens to us but we do not know what JQ Public is thinking because we are not him.
Until the end user knows PBA's are useless they will seek speed as it is validated by the higher energy figure the chrono spells out if you know the formula. The problem lies in the details as 4 grainers haven't the mass to find the target beyond spitting distance. The knownothing will never factor in retained energy so the Gamo crowd will know they have highest energy and speed both. What more do you need that doesn't require more than 2 minutes of their attention span.

TimmyMac1
Title: Re: Crosman new MK 177
Post by: silent_airman on June 14, 2013, 11:26:27 AM
I fell for that 1200 fps jive when I first got back into airgunnery. I bought a Gamo Not-So-Silent Cat at Walmart. I still have a few PBAs kicking around, mostly to shoot for kicks away from home. That sonic crack is cool. Now that I have been shooting a Crosman 2240 and 13xx I have come to appreciate lower report with increased accuracy and greater energy. I purchased my first TKO shroud and I am enjoying how quiet my 2240 is now. My 2240 is a work in progress and I am enjoying modding it. It is amazingly accurate for such an inexpensive gun.