In looking to buy a used airgun, it seems that the most common for sale are Chinese re-branded or re- branded guns by name brand sellers. Do the non re-branded Chinese and other guns hold up well over time or are you just way better off buying higher end quality? Where is the "sweet spot" for value in the airgun market? Does being able to do your own tuning make a big difference? Is it better to buy and tune or try to get a good out of the box shooter and pay more? Any thoughts or help greatly appreciated!
Go right to a Diana or HW and be done.
Since you didn't actually say you were looking for a Springer ( I know you are though ) I'd have to recommend getting a vintage Sheridan blue streak, the power is excellent, the variable power is a great feature, they'll outlast a lot of modern guns, and they don't have the learning curve like Springer's have ( you'll need to know the artillery hold )
Quote from: bantam5s on July 28, 2016, 06:10:44 PMSince you didn't actually say you were looking for a Springer ( I know you are though ) I'd have to recommend getting a vintage Sheridan blue streak, the power is excellent, the variable power is a great feature, they'll outlast a lot of modern guns, and they don't have the learning curve like Springer's have ( you'll need to know the artillery hold )I do agree with you that a "Blue Streak" would be an excellent short to medium range starter airgun except for the fact that a new BlueStreak is no more, and if a used "Streak" is bought it may need a rebuild kit (which is available). Another alternative may be a new .22 Benjamin 392 from Pyramyd Air at about $170 but I don't know if the new Benjamin has the same build quality as the old "Dans. I also agree that the pumpers aren't "hold sensitive" and can be shot well from a bench off bags (unlike a recoiling springer)..I personally believe that some of the "pumper benefits" you mentioned aren't "benefits" at all! I started airgunning with Daisy BB guns as a kid and moved up to Daisy and Crosman pumpers when living in New Jersey decades ago to rid my garden plot of rabbits. For target practice I used to hang tin cans on tree limbs and shoot at them offhand. After buying my first "precision springer" from Beeman (a HW50) I was really pleased that I could hit acorns with the springer at the same distance I was hitting tin cans with the pumpers! "the power is excellent"Really, while the "Dans" are heads and shoulders over the pumpers I owned here is a review which put the velocity of a 13.5 grain pellet at 650fps after 8 pumps.https://www.pyramydair.com/article/Sheridan_Blue_Streak_combo_May_2008/50Indeed respectable power with 8 pumps which is similar to my .20 Beeman R9s with one cocking stroke, however the trajectory was too loopy for me past my 30 yard zero distance. I remember the last pumps of my Daisy/Crosman pumpers were pretty stiff so I can't imagine that the "Dan" would be much different. Another consideration MAY be the "pneumatic CRACK sound" I got with my pumpers with full number of pumps. The .20 R9 is considerably quieter than a fully charged pumper! Anywhoo......I was able to "high stress tune" my .20 R9 to shoot Beeman FTS pellets at 825fps which gave a suitable trajectory (similar to a low stress .177 cal tune) but at the cost of a harsh shooting gun that was rather hold sensitive. Decades ago I sold the .20 barrel replacing it with .177 cal never to look back. "variable power is a great feature"LOL....I have enough trouble learning the trajectory loop of a "single power" springer much less learning the trajectories of "multiple pump velocities". In the review I noticed that it seemed to revolve around a 20 yard shooting distance so perhaps there is no "trajectory issue" with such short ranges suitable for open sight shooting. LOL....my R9 & HW95 are zero'd at 30 yards!"they'll outlast a lot of modern guns" Guess that depends on the springer and how well it's maintained! When living in West Virginia almost a decade ago I would shoot about 10,000 CPLs per year and a good aftermarket spring and piston seal would last about two years..........then it took less than 1/2 hour and $40 to replace both at the same time with "top drawer" Maccari aftermarket parts. If I were shooting a pumper as frequently using only 4 pumps for each shot (instead of , the two year shooting would require 80,000 pumps. I do see that there are folks specializing in rebuilding "Dans" and I wonder if they had 20,000 shots before needing a reseal."they don't have the learning curve like Springer's have ( you'll need to know the artillery hold )"Yep...that is indeed a benefit but at only 20ish yards I don't think there would be much of a learning curve with a HW95 either! My brother was splitting playing cards on edge with his .177 R9 after only a couple weeks of shooting so I'm guessing that the shooter has something to do with this. Here are a couple "three shot 50 yard groups" he shot during the same shooting session not long after owning the R9..........Prior to owning the R9 he only shot powder burners, hense the 3 shot groups.Myself, it took a lot longer to master my R9 at 50 yards but I didn't have any issues up to 30 yards. After getting a handle on shooting the R9 I shot these two 5 shot 50 yard groups when living in WV........I was so pleased with the 1st group using holdover that I zero'd the R9 for 50 yards and shot the second group. By the way, all my shooting is done from "bucket with sticks".
"( FYI those velocities aren't for a true Sheridan, but a .20 cap crosman ) my blue streak which is a tack driver was 35 years old before needing a rebuild, so I'm sure well over 20.000 rounds had gone through it."You got a good one so I'm assuming that all can be made as reliable if bought used."I also doubt that you could really get as good of a gun for the same money as a fair priced vintage Sheridan"I don't know what a "fair priced Sheridan" would cost but it must be real cheap. "Accuracy is no issue with variable power as you use less pumps for closer ranges. If one was to hunt with it the lack of a scope would add the fun challenge of having to sneak up on your prey."Concerning "stalking prey"Agree 100%! Most of my squirrel hunting is stalking 30 yards or closer if possible when I'm not still hunting from "bucket and sticks". "I heard nothing that would make a vintage Sheridan a bad option"Hummm....while never owning a sheridan I did give several reasons why I wasn't fond of my Daisy & Crosman pumpers so you have "heard" something! "you only get one power level ( Springer's may be capable of a higher power level, but a vintage Sheridan has more than enough power for a lot of things"I only want one consistent power level! I do agree that "Sheridan power" is sufficient for most airgun quarry when you hit the vitals. The issue for me was pellet trajectory which made accurate range guestimation too critical for my skills. As mentioned........I had a .20 R9 that shot 14.3 grain pellets at 650fps and the trajectory made shooting very problematic in unfamiliar woods! This is the very reason I nixed the .20 cal barrel replacing it with .177 cal for my R9. I do agree that out to 20 yards it really didn't make a nickles difference what cal I shot because the trajectory was flat enough, even for a 14.3 grain dome at 650fps."you don't always need magnum power" Again I agree! Actually I didn't want "factory power" with the .177 HW95 I bought in June of last year. The first thing I did was to de-tune the gun to shoot CPLs at 850fps instead of the 880fps factory level of my particular gun."not as light compact and handy as vintage pump guns" Agree 100%! A springer derives it's power using a steel spring inside a steel receiver using a steel piston to push a lead pellet out of a steel barrel.....all mounted in a solid beech stock which does adds up to about 7 1/2 pound without a scope and mounts. This is about 2 pounds heavier a "Dan" which weighing about 5 1/2 pounds according to this......http://www.airgundepot.com/cb9.htmlThe weight and size issues alone is why I wouldn't own the larger and heavier R1 at almost 9 pounds. Weight is indeed an issue for even me!"The only real issue is trying to put a scope on them, but they're much easier to operate without one anyway."Agreed! The HW95 is also easier to operate (and lighter) without a scope but for some like myself with 69 year old eyes optics are the only option, even for 30 yard plinking!"I have nothing against Springer's ( I do prefer my pumpers though )"LOL....I assumed that and there is nothing wrong with your preference if it "trips yer trigger"! Personally I prefer springers (good springers anyway) after starting with a couple Crosman and Daisy pumpers decades ago! "a vintage pump gun is a great option that lacks the issues that Springer's have"Well, a pumper (vintage or otherwise) simply swaps "springer issues" for "pumper issues" and I find it easier to deal with the "springer issues" when I'm trying to hit past the zero distance!Needing to take several clickety clackety pumps to shoot one cracking shot and when trying to snipe rabbits in my New Jersey garden meant that I didn't get a second shot if the first shot was missed! With the R9 I've been able to get off a second shot at a missed squirrel more than once. This usually happened when the squirrel was at a steep angle on a high tree limb and the shot goes high over the head due to the steep angle and mis-judged hold under. LOL.....the squirrels looked puzzled by the zipping noise over their heads and I'm able to quietly re-cock the R9, re-aim lower, drop the nutter.At my uncles farm outside Harrisonburg, VA my brother dropped 5 squirrels from the same tree using his .177 R9. He simply shot the squirrels as they were cutting nuts from a lone hickory in the field 30 yards away from his hide in the woods at the edge of the field. LOL.....he simply drops a squirrel and lets it lay, recock the R9, drop another squirrel, so on and so forth till the sixth and last squirrel realized something wasn't right and took off into the woods, then he collected the downed squirels. If using a pumper (even if he could head shoot the squirrels at 30 yards with iron sights) I seriously doubt that he would have gotten off a second shot due to the "pneumatic crack" and subsequent noise of pumping 8 times (or whatever) for each shot. Pumpers and springers are simply different tools for different applications where ther is indeed some crossover! The iron sighter Sheridan pumper would be unsuited for shooting field target matches where the close 10 yard targets might have 3/8" diameter killzones and the longer targets at 55 yards usually have about 1 1/2" killzones, plus all variations in unknown distances between 10 and 55 yards. "A pump gun is just a good place to start."Agreed! A pumper is a indeed good place to START but after a while the pumping for each shot grew old!Peace my friend! Simply a matter of "different strokes for different folks" for sure and we do agree on a lot of points, however I'm simply posting my differing interpretations of the points agreed on!
Pretty much in line with what the others are saying, here. One of the GREAT advantages of AGs are the superb triggers available on the quality versions and, make no mistake, with AG shooting, an excellent trigger is a huge advantage for the sake of accuracy. Proper follow though with an AG is a must and a good trigger greatly encourages that. Trust me, you won't get far in AG shooting with a mediocre trigger. Worth every penny to just get a Diana or HW at some now very reasonable prices for the trigger, alone, but along with that, you get true lifetime quality and great accuracy, right out of the box. If one of those is not in the budget, I get that - have been there, myself - but if you do have the money, go right to a Diana or HW and be done.