GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => American/U.S. Air Gun Gates => Crosman-Benjamin Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Airik on October 16, 2012, 02:39:02 AM

Title: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Airik on October 16, 2012, 02:39:02 AM
I'm torn between the Benjamin 397 .177 and 392 .22 for my first pumper.  I'm not looking at the Sheridan Blue Streak .20 because of its advertised lesser fps of the three, and $50 additional cost.  I'd be using this for a >30yrd addition to my hunters for small bird and fox squirrels in the field.

I don't have the cash for PCP yet, so I want a pumper, to add to my arsenal, that I don't have to worry about being "cocked" for an hour (versus springers and NP that I don't leave cocked for more than 5-10 minutes), plus I'd love a lightweight gun.  It would also be my first "fixed barrel" airgun.

The physical 2012 Crosman catalog lists the following:

Benjamin 397 .177:
"Up to 800 fps"
"11.2 fpe"

Benjamin 392 .22:
"Up to 685 fps"
"14.9 fpe"

Sheridan Blue Streak .20:
"Up to 675 fps"
"14.5 fpe"

It confuses me why the Blue Streak .20 is slower than the 392 .22.

I'm leaning toward the 397 for because of more pellet options, including 10.5gr boxed Crosman Premier Domed that are such a bargain.  So, with the 397, I could shoot anything from medium to heavy pellets.  I wouldn't want to shoot .22 heavies in the 392.

What are the differences in the innards and triggers, if any?

I have a few more questions, but I'll leave that for later.  What are your opinions?  Thanks a ton.

Edit: Added pics via Crosman.com.  All have EXACT SAME wood grain and kB :D  ::)
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Lambchops on October 16, 2012, 03:18:52 AM
I have a Benjamin 397 from 1995, and a Benjamin & Sheridan Blue Streak .20 from the 1960s, both belonging to my grandpa and given to me when he passed. He was the one that showed me the joy of airguns...

Anyways, both are very good. The .20 has a limited selection of pellets and costs more. The .177 has significantly less power than the other two. The Benjamin 392 really packs a punch on small game and you can use heavy pellets and they will give more fpe most of the time. I suggest the 392, and always keep it oiled!
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Airik on October 16, 2012, 03:21:21 AM
I have a Benjamin 397 from 1995, and a Benjamin & Sheridan Blue Streak .20 from the 1960s, both belonging to my grandpa and given to me when he passed. He was the one that showed me the joy of airguns...

Anyways, both are very good. The .20 has a limited selection of pellets and costs more. The .177 has significantly less power than the other two. The Benjamin 392 really packs a punch on small game and you can use heavy pellets and they will give more fpe most of the time. I suggest the 392, and always keep it oiled!

Thanks, Lambo, but mine will be a lower quality 2012 model.  Your post means nothing :P  :)  :P  :)

Edit:  I'm not sure if you read the original post.  I posted the "power" specs of each, and also asked if all the innards were the same.  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Lambchops on October 16, 2012, 04:52:43 AM
For the most part, the innards are the same. The triggers on them all are the same and are really terrible though. And most have paint in the barrel that screws up accuracy. The .20 is slower because there is less surface area for the air to push against the back of the pellet.
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Airik on October 16, 2012, 05:07:54 AM
Benjamin 397 .177:
"Up to 800 fps"
"11.2 fpe"

Benjamin 392 .22:
"Up to 685 fps"
"14.9 fpe"

Sheridan Blue Streak .20:
"Up to 675 fps"
"14.5 fpe"

The Blue Streak .20 should be in the middle.  This confuses me.
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: jdub on October 16, 2012, 06:11:27 AM
The difference in velocity is not because of the diameter of the pellet.  Your numbers provide the answer just plug in the missing variable--pellet weight.

At 685 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.9 FPE
At 675 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.47 FPE
At 800 fps a 7.9 gr pellet gives you 11.2 FPE

They tested both the .20 .22 caliber gun with the same weight pellet.  Nothing wrong with that it just looks weird.  Your used to seeing pellet weight increase when caliber increases.
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Airik on October 16, 2012, 07:00:22 AM
^ Thanks, @jdub.  I figured such, but it really does confuse the customer with what they assume we perceive, and what they advertise.
Title: Crosman produced 39X platform....
Post by: BALLISTIC1 on October 16, 2012, 09:12:36 AM
I have what I believe are SOME of the best and baddest Benjamin and Sheridan rifle IN THE WORLD!!!!!!

Don't you think it is kind of rude when you tell someone that their post means NOTHING when they take the time to TRY to help you and answer question(s) that you asked...

As you stated in your original post the gun in the photo's IS THE EXACT SAME GUN!!!
In fact, the guns,except for the caliber specific parts, i.e. barrel, bolt, and bolt oring are IDENTICAL!!!!
The price difference is probably politically related from when Benjamin bought Sheridan and Crosman bought both of them. Sheridans have always cost more it was probably part of the DEAL..... The biggest drawback with the Sheridan other than price is pellet availability.
 
Being that the .22 and the .20 use the exact same powerplant, if you are shooting the same weight pellet the .20 should shoot farther flatter because of it's smaller diameter. And will make almost the same FPE in 'real world testing'....

Caveat emptor (buyer beware)...  Advertisers lie or stretch the truth all of the time... Knowledge is the unfair advantage.

If you plan to use your rifle for any kind of hunting or if you are considering power mods don't even waste your time with the .177. My modded 392 makes very close to 24ftlbs...  The .177 does not accept power mods near as well.. In my opinion the only reason to buy a .177 is price and availability of pellets. 

Greg
(http://www.imgur.com/pzx0C.jpg)
(http://www.imgur.com/1Nfkz.jpg)
(http://www.imgur.com/SfbYe.jpg)
(http://www.imgur.com/aprGM.jpg)
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: TimmyMac1 on October 16, 2012, 10:34:17 AM
The difference in velocity is not because of the diameter of the pellet.  Your numbers provide the answer just plug in the missing variable--pellet weight.

At 685 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.9 FPE
At 675 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.47 FPE
At 800 fps a 7.9 gr pellet gives you 11.2 FPE

They tested both the .20 .22 caliber gun with the same weight pellet.  Nothing wrong with that it just looks weird.  Your used to seeing pellet weight increase when caliber increases.

Your putting way too much stock in factory numbers. It is really more like this;
.177 with 7 grain is 800 fps
.20 cal with a 10 grain  685
.22 cal with a 11.9 grain 675

Everyone uses the lightest ammo imaginable for speed figures and they do get creative. FPE potential from these drivetrains in STEROID fashion is;
25 fpe in .22
22 fpe in .20
19 fpe in .177

All these energy figures would be from the heaviest pellet made(28.5 .22, 23.4 .20 and 16 grain .177) in those calibers which is how a high output MSP system makes the most energy. Light pellet FPS data WILL BE FAR LOWER fpe. Multis don't make speed so to fgo in that direction will be a huge dissapointment. .177 caliber Steroids are great for shooting more and pumping less but at full tilt they are a monumental waste of human resources.

There is no way a 14.3 at 8 puumps out of a .20 and .22 will shoot at the same power level. Area matters when pushing lead down a bore with Air. the .22 is more efficient. You go up in power when you go up in caliber. ALL OTHER THINGS HELD EQUAL!

Later TimmyMac1
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Lambchops on October 16, 2012, 10:34:43 AM
I have what I believe are SOME of the best and baddest Benjamin and Sheridan rifle IN THE WORLD!!!!!!

Don't you think it is kind of rude when you tell someone that their post means NOTHING when they take the time to TRY to help you and answer question(s) that you asked...

As you stated in your original post the gun in the photo's IS THE EXACT SAME GUN!!!
In fact, the guns,except for the caliber specific parts, i.e. barrel, bolt, and bolt oring are IDENTICAL!!!!
The price difference is probably politically related from when Benjamin bought Sheridan and Crosman bought both of them. Sheridans have always cost more it was probably part of the DEAL..... The biggest drawback with the Sheridan other than price is pellet availability.
 
Being that the .22 and the .20 use the exact same powerplant, if you are shooting the same weight pellet the .20 should shoot farther flatter because of it's smaller diameter. And will make almost the same FPE in 'real world testing'....

Caveat emptor (buyer beware)...  Advertisers lie or stretch the truth all of the time... Knowledge is the unfair advantage.

If you plan to use your rifle for any kind of hunting or if you are considering power mods don't even waste your time with the .177. My modded 392 makes very close to 24ftlbs...  The .177 does not accept power mods near as well.. In my opinion the only reason to buy a .177 is price and availability of pellets. 

Greg
(http://www.imgur.com/pzx0C.jpg)
(http://www.imgur.com/1Nfkz.jpg)
(http://www.imgur.com/SfbYe.jpg)
(http://www.imgur.com/aprGM.jpg)

X2
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Airik on October 16, 2012, 11:16:44 AM
I have what I believe are SOME of the best and baddest Benjamin and Sheridan rifle IN THE WORLD!!!!!!

Don't you think it is kind of rude when you tell someone that their post means NOTHING when they take the time to TRY to help you and answer question(s) that you asked...

It was a dry joke that I'm sure Lambo got, and hopefully the rest of the world got.  I wasn't being rude whatsoever, hence all the smiley faces.
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Lambchops on October 16, 2012, 12:59:20 PM
Lambo Guinea!
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Airik on October 16, 2012, 01:37:44 PM
Lambo Guinea!

For sure, bud :)

I've been given the name, "Air Kick," recently, thanks to Sarge. lol.  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Airik on October 16, 2012, 01:44:46 PM
^ @TimmyMac1,

"Everyone uses the lightest ammo imaginable for speed figures and they do get creative."

I realize this, also.  In my original post, I used quotation marks to stress this 'advertised' point.
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Oni on October 16, 2012, 01:49:18 PM
I'd get a Mac 1 tuned 392.  Check out his subforum.  Get some secret sauce to keep it going for years!

I have a Condor and an old 342 that I sadly learned is not eligible for a steroid tune.  I still plan on having Tim make me a 392 as soon as he gets the Gen 2 brake install figured out.
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: jdub on October 16, 2012, 02:44:23 PM
The difference in velocity is not because of the diameter of the pellet.  Your numbers provide the answer just plug in the missing variable--pellet weight.

At 685 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.9 FPE
At 675 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.47 FPE
At 800 fps a 7.9 gr pellet gives you 11.2 FPE

They tested both the .20 .22 caliber gun with the same weight pellet.  Nothing wrong with that it just looks weird.  Your used to seeing pellet weight increase when caliber increases.

Your putting way too much stock in factory numbers. It is really more like this;
.177 with 7 grain is 800 fps
.20 cal with a 10 grain  685
.22 cal with a 11.9 grain 675


On the contrary I have *no* faith in factory numbers and wasn't attempting to argue that the posted numbers were accurate--only that a critical piece of the equation was being left out of consideration--pellet weight.  And most manufacturers purposely omit it.   Sorry for the confusion--I didn't mean for it to sound like a defense of stated numbers.

Because of your expertise in this area I certainly trust your numbers more than those posted by Crosman/Benjamin with regards to how each of these guns can be expected to perform in real life.   From a personal point of view I have both a 20 year old Blue Streak and a recent model 392 and I prefer the Blue Streak by a very wide margin.  :)

Cheers!
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: PakProtector on October 18, 2012, 01:29:43 PM
hey-Hey!!!,
Three vintage Streaks( all Blue ) so far. Up to 40 years old. No intrest in the new stuff, and at some point I'll get one that's 50 yo..:) get a good shooter and send to Tim and you won't regret it. Two of mine are on their way home from Tim's shop after getting Steroid tunes. I can't wait...it feels like they've been gone forever( but it's more like a month ). I have a pair of good shooting rifles, a springer and a PCP and I really doubt I'd miss either of them as much as I miss the Sheridans.

there are two on GunAuction and the price isn't nutsy yet...was seriously considering the Silver...:)
cheers,
Douglas
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Airik on October 18, 2012, 01:59:19 PM
Tim, how much is a 397 or 392 tune on a new gun? And what does it involve?
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: PakProtector on October 18, 2012, 02:43:00 PM
Tim, how much is a 397 or 392 tune on a new gun? And what does it involve?

Cal Tim, he'll give you the straight goods; I have no idear what it involves on a 392.
cheers,
Douglas
Title: Mac1 Billet Steroid Treatment.....
Post by: BALLISTIC1 on October 18, 2012, 02:57:32 PM
Three of the four guns in the photo's above are Billet Steroid Modified by Tim at Mac1.... He is definitely the go to guy when it comes to hopping up a Benjamin Or Sheridan! I LOVE MINE!!!! Greg
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: VAFarmer on October 18, 2012, 03:38:21 PM
hit the old mac1 site.
Dont know that the new one is up and running yet.

Gives a pretty good description of what you can have done.   

I will say the added power is a BIG plus, but you will find, that if you simply remove the overspray from the crown area, and smooth out the trigger, that these guns can put out ~ 15 ftlbs with a pump or two extra and heavies.     The billet makes the biggest improvement in the gun, IMO.   The pump arms on Benjamins late model stuff is okay for stock usage, when shimmed up.   But for extra pumping, or just long shooting sessions, the billet arm is the way to go.   you dont feel the "flex".

they are quite accurate, though.   Little to no recoil makes it a special shooter.

Mine likes Barracudas.  alot.

God bless,

Farmer
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: TimmyMac1 on October 18, 2012, 06:27:45 PM
hit the old mac1 site.
Dont know that the new one is up and running yet.

Gives a pretty good description of what you can have done.   

I will say the added power is a BIG plus, but you will find, that if you simply remove the overspray from the crown area, and smooth out the trigger, that these guns can put out ~ 15 ftlbs with a pump or two extra and heavies.     The billet makes the biggest improvement in the gun, IMO.   The pump arms on Benjamins late model stuff is okay for stock usage, when shimmed up.   But for extra pumping, or just long shooting sessions, the billet arm is the way to go.   you dont feel the "flex".

they are quite accurate, though.   Little to no recoil makes it a special shooter.

Mine likes Barracudas.  alot.

God bless,

Farmer

The Mac1 site is finally up. Check it out.

http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/ (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/)

TimmyMac1
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Airik on October 19, 2012, 08:38:16 PM
Thanks everyone.  Thanks, Tim -- I might be doing business with you after the new year :)
Title: Re: Mac1 Billet Steroid Treatment.....
Post by: ebarnes419 on October 20, 2012, 05:22:42 AM
Three of the four guns in the photo's above are Billet Steroid Modified by Tim at Mac1.... He is definitely the go to guy when it comes to hopping up a Benjamin Or Sheridan! I LOVE MINE!!!! Greg
Hey Greg, any idea what Tim charges for a tune up?
Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: Airik on October 20, 2012, 06:38:35 AM
Three of the four guns in the photo's above are Billet Steroid Modified by Tim at Mac1.... He is definitely the go to guy when it comes to hopping up a Benjamin Or Sheridan! I LOVE MINE!!!! Greg
Hey Greg, any idea what Tim charges for a tune up?

Just look up @TimmyMac1 up above that posted in this thread, and shoot him an email or PM question.  Or go to http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/ (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/) :).  But don't waste his time with a bunch of ignorant questions, or so I've been told from folks :D :P :)

Tim is good stuff, for sure.  Just read his website that blew me away :D.
Title: $ talk Not for General Gates
Post by: TimmyMac1 on October 20, 2012, 10:27:54 AM
We're not supposed to talk business in the General Gates as that is for All to see and talking $ & Business is supposed to go into the Vendors gates.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=147 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=147)
I can tell you that it entirely depends on what gun is the starting point and how reliable/durable you want it to be. There are a lot of parts you do not NEED but you can opt for them.
On the current gun there are a lot of parts needed and they cost a lot to do. When the guns lever, link, front plug and often valve are all not useable it gets pricey.

Shop landline is the only line right now as I spaced my Iphone and it is gone. 310-3273581 does not work til next week and 310-327-3582 is the landline and it is our only line for a few days.

Later

Tim

Title: Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
Post by: swingin on March 13, 2013, 10:05:22 PM
I'd get a Mac 1 tuned 392.  Check out his subforum.  Get some secret sauce to keep it going for years!

I have a Condor and an old 342 that I sadly learned is not eligible for a steroid tune.  I still plan on having Tim make me a 392 as soon as he gets the Gen 2 brake install figured out.

Can someone put a link to the Mac1 sub forum? Thank you.
Title: Here you go.
Post by: TimmyMac1 on March 13, 2013, 10:10:26 PM
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=147 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=147)