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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => American/U.S. Air Gun Gates => Crosman-Benjamin Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: BlueSteel50 on August 29, 2012, 01:49:13 AM

Title: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: BlueSteel50 on August 29, 2012, 01:49:13 AM
 Been thinking of trying  one of the nitro piston  guns . what model would be the best bet? Want something accurate in a higher power than my HW50S to use up all the heavy pellets i got the 50 don't like . HA!  Would like it in the 22 cal so i guess that leaves out the Remington ~~BS50
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: ShakySarge on August 29, 2012, 07:55:11 AM
IMO I would go for the Benji Trail NP XL. It will throw the heavies nice and quick like! I have the .177 version and could not be happier!!!!!!

Matt
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: mtbdrew on August 29, 2012, 09:47:39 AM
How heavy are the pellets your talking about and how far you wanting to shoot them?
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: VAFarmer on August 30, 2012, 09:49:07 AM
If you are accustomed to shooting an HW50.......

Unless you are prepared for "less" gun......

You need to go with an HW95.   Same quality and feel of your HW.   Have a Vortek kit installed. 
HW guns already shoot as smoothly as gas-ram guns, IMO.
Those Vortek kit guns get 16-17 fpe at the muzzle.   IF you go with a .20 cal, you will get the same muzzle energy but slightly better trajectory.

If you are prepared to go with more shooter grade of gun, look at a gas ram xs46U tuned by Mike Melick.    I have heard nothing but great things about accuracy/power from these, and the guy is great support for a rifle.
Plus, you will get a good price.

Good luck and God bless,

Farmer
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: diyj98 on August 30, 2012, 12:13:10 PM
He wrote here that he doesn't carry them any longer.

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=29283.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=29283.0)
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Kailua on August 30, 2012, 10:49:02 PM
That might have been posted when he had a problem with the suppliers.  Call or email him he had some a week ago.
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Nate the airgunner on August 30, 2012, 11:46:38 PM
You can't go wrong with a Benjamin Trail Xl. But the XL has a lot of power tus a lot of recoil, so it takes some getting used to, if you don't want to take as long to get used to shooting it, go for a Trail all wheather or hardwood, or a Benjamin Titan. You also can't go wrong with a Crosman Nitro Venom.
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: BlueSteel50 on August 31, 2012, 02:02:24 AM
How heavy are the pellets your talking about and how far you wanting to shoot them?
   Only mid 14 - 16 gr. the HW50S don't seems to like anything heavier than the JSB RS or Beeman Silver Bears . distance, 40 yds and under ~~ pushing more than 20-25 yds for pest control with the 50S is pushing my knock down depending on the critter ~~BS50
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: harry palmer on August 31, 2012, 02:11:31 AM
You can't go wrong with a Benjamin Trail Xl. But the XL has a lot of power tus a lot of recoil, so it takes some getting used to, if you don't want to take as long to get used to shooting it, go for a Trail all wheather or hardwood, or a Benjamin Titan. You also can't go wrong with a Crosman Nitro Venom.

I disagree, the triggers on these Trail XL`s really not so good compared to the Rekord on your HW50s and power is nothing without proper shot placement, IMHO VAFarmer is right, you should have a think about moving up to a R9/HW95K ; they are pricey but you get what you pay for these days ;)!!.

Take care

Kenny

(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/kennyontario/hw95k010.jpg)
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: PakProtector on August 31, 2012, 11:57:35 PM
RX2...but get it in 20 cal. No intrest whatsoever in any other springers...well almost; the new LGV managed to get my attention somehow...:) I'll spend nearly that much for a set of Michelin 235/85-R16 for my old Cummins. Then I have to live with that choice for lots and lots of miles. Quality only hurts once...heh-heh-heh.
cheers,
Douglas
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: BlueSteel50 on September 01, 2012, 08:14:23 PM
You can't go wrong with a Benjamin Trail Xl. But the XL has a lot of power tus a lot of recoil, so it takes some getting used to, if you don't want to take as long to get used to shooting it, go for a Trail all wheather or hardwood, or a Benjamin Titan. You also can't go wrong with a Crosman Nitro Venom.

I disagree, the triggers on these Trail XL`s really not so good compared to the Rekord on your HW50s and power is nothing without proper shot placement, IMHO VAFarmer is right, you should have a think about moving up to a R9/HW95K ; they are pricey but you get what you pay for these days ;)!!.

Take care

Kenny

(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/kennyontario/hw95k010.jpg)
      The Weihrauch HW95 don't seem to be very avaialble in the states  PA don't have any ,and I thought they took over the importing of the Weihrauch AGs ~~BS50
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: 1nmartin on September 02, 2012, 02:30:23 AM
The Crosman Nitro Piston is an awesome thing... shoots smoothly. very quiet. extremely nice.

The problem is the gun.... Crosmans breakbarrels just aren't that accurate.

I had the Benji Titan GP and accuracy was OK for about 500 shots. After that it went bad.

My buddy bought the Trail NP .22  He basically had the same problem as my Titan did.

I would advise anyone who plans to shoot more than 500 pellets to stay away from the Benjamin breakbarrels. They re made in China and they just dint hold up... The barrel lock gives out...

If Benjamin would make an underlever with the Nitro Piston.... Something where the barrel doesn't move... Now that would be something sweet.
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Bryan Heimann on September 02, 2012, 09:53:26 AM
I can't believe no one's recommended the HW90!  Same Weirauch worksmanship as your HW50, but with a Theoben gas ram instead of a steel spring.  Perfect match for the heavy lead.  A hair over 20 fpe, and some claim as much as 24 or 25 fpe from theirs.  I think this is exactly the gun you are looking for.  EXPENSIVE though, but in comparison to the rest of the Theoben guns it is a mega-bargain!
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: diyj98 on September 02, 2012, 11:54:42 AM
If Benjamin would make an underlever with the Nitro Piston.... Something where the barrel doesn't move... Now that would be something sweet.

That's what I'm waiting for. An cheap gas rammed fixed barrel gun.
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Ahab on September 02, 2012, 12:39:57 PM
I can't believe no one's recommended the HW90!  Same Weirauch worksmanship as your HW50, but with a Theoben gas ram instead of a steel spring.  Perfect match for the heavy lead.  A hair over 20 fpe, and some claim as much as 24 or 25 fpe from theirs.  I think this is exactly the gun you are looking for.  EXPENSIVE though, but in comparison to the rest of the Theoben guns it is a mega-bargain!

I can't either. Mine loves H&N Field Target 24.38 gr.
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Ahab on September 02, 2012, 12:42:41 PM
I can't believe no one's recommended the HW90!  Same Weirauch worksmanship as your HW50, but with a Theoben gas ram instead of a steel spring.  Perfect match for the heavy lead.  A hair over 20 fpe, and some claim as much as 24 or 25 fpe from theirs.  I think this is exactly the gun you are looking for.  EXPENSIVE though, but in comparison to the rest of the Theoben guns it is a mega-bargain!

I can't either. Mine loves H&N Field Target 24.38 gr.

OOP's, sorry. OP asked about .22 caliber.
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Bryan Heimann on September 02, 2012, 03:45:38 PM
.22 or .25, IMHO you can't lose with an HW90.  If it is within your budget andyou are looking at gas spring rifles, this is it!   If i could pick any one gas ram air rifle and money were not an object, I'd get a .22 HW90 and throw on a Leupold 3-9x33 Ultralight EFR.  Not in my budget, but a guy can dream can't he?
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: BlueSteel50 on September 02, 2012, 10:18:05 PM
 The only place I saw thew HW95 was AZair and i read some iffy things on them . What the diff between the HW95 and the HW95 Luxus ? just the checkering ? AND $50 BUX? ~~BS50
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Kailua on September 02, 2012, 10:41:06 PM
If Benjamin would make an underlever with the Nitro Piston.... Something where the barrel doesn't move... Now that would be something sweet.

That's what I'm waiting for. An cheap gas rammed fixed barrel gun.

Not sure if the XS46U would count but it is a fixed barrel air rifle with an aftermarket gas ram installed by Mike Melick.  Wasn't sure if you were looking for a factory installed gas ram fixed barrel.
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: pcp4me on June 21, 2014, 08:53:33 PM
The Crosman Nitro Piston is an awesome thing... shoots smoothly. very quiet. extremely nice.

The problem is the gun.... Crosmans breakbarrels just aren't that accurate.

I had the Benji Titan GP and accuracy was OK for about 500 shots. After that it went bad.

My buddy bought the Trail NP .22  He basically had the same problem as my Titan did.


Well...Chinese or not, if a gun shoots good for 500 rounds and all of a sudden goes "bad", ain't the gun. Something has changed. Like a nick on the barrel crown, or some one cleans the gun and scratches the rifling, or damage to the breech, or loose screws, or amatuer gunsmithing, or something. Dunno what happened, but barrel lockups don't go bad in 500 rounds. Not even on the worst of Chinese guns. I have had/have many Chinese guns and shoot some where in the neighborhood of 50 - 100k rounds per year. NEVER had a gun shoot good for 500 rounds and then all of a sudden go "bad". In fact have had many guns improve after a break in of couple hundred to 1000 rounds and velocity improve and accuracy gets better. Some don't. IF a gun don't shoot good after 200 rounds it gets returned for a refund or exchange. Many do, both American and Chinese made. Never had to return a German made gun.

I own a Titan GP. Was a refurb, shoots great! Around 1000 rounds through it. Wonderful accuracy, velocity has settled at about 700 fps with 14.3 gr chp. My brother has a Benjamin Trail XL, same basic gun, just fancier, and it shot terrible at first. After a lot of detective work, discovered he put pell gun oil in the chamber. Told him u can't do that, need to use silicone chamber oil. He purchased some, put it in the chamber, let it set several days, and after 100 - 200 rounds, the gun settled down and now shoots great. He is getting about 730 fps with same pellet and both will group 1" from a rest at 50 yards on a calm day. Before the silicone chamber oil, shot spreads were as great as 350 fps over 10 shots. Now he gets spreads from 5 - 20 fps depending on the pellet.

Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Bryan Heimann on June 21, 2014, 08:56:49 PM
The Crosman Nitro Piston is an awesome thing... shoots smoothly. very quiet. extremely nice.

The problem is the gun.... Crosmans breakbarrels just aren't that accurate.

I had the Benji Titan GP and accuracy was OK for about 500 shots. After that it went bad.

My buddy bought the Trail NP .22  He basically had the same problem as my Titan did.


Well...Chinese or not, if a gun shoots good for 500 rounds and all of a sudden goes "bad", ain't the gun. Something has changed. Like a nick on the barrel crown, or some one cleans the gun and scratches the rifling, or damage to the breech, or loose screws, or amatuer gunsmithing, or something. Dunno what happened, but barrel lockups don't go bad in 500 rounds. Not even on the worst of Chinese guns. I have had/have many Chinese guns and shoot some where in the neighborhood of 50 - 100k rounds per year. NEVER had a gun shoot good for 500 rounds and then all of a sudden go "bad". In fact have had many guns improve after a break in of couple hundred to 1000 rounds and velocity improve and accuracy gets better. Some don't. IF a gun don't shoot good after 200 rounds it gets returned for a refund or exchange. Many do, both American and Chinese made. Never had to return a German made gun.

I own a Titan GP. Was a refurb, shoots great! Around 1000 rounds through it. Wonderful accuracy, velocity has settled at about 700 fps with 14.3 gr chp. My brother has a Benjamin Trail XL, same basic gun, just fancier, and it shot terrible at first. After a lot of detective work, discovered he put pell gun oil in the chamber. Told him u can't do that, need to use silicone chamber oil. He purchased some, put it in the chamber, let it set several days, and after 100 - 200 rounds, the gun settled down and now shoots great. He is getting about 730 fps with same pellet and both will group 1" from a rest at 50 yards on a calm day. Before the silicone chamber oil, shot spreads were as great as 350 fps over 10 shots. Now he gets spreads from 5 - 20 fps depending on the pellet.




If he is getting 730 fps with CPHP in an XL, there is something wrong with the gun...
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: pcp4me on June 21, 2014, 09:12:23 PM
Not sure if the XS46U would count but it is a fixed barrel air rifle with an aftermarket gas ram installed by Mike Melick.  Wasn't sure if you were looking for a factory installed gas ram fixed barrel.
[/quote]


I would not recommend ANYTHING from Mike Melick! I ordered a custom QB target model. Per our phone conversation I told him I wanted it tuned for absolute target accuracy and highest velocity he could get consistent with that! Paid him, and about a week later got the gun.

HORRIBLE! Could not group 2 - 3" at 25'!!! YES, twenty five feet rested indoors. Just to eliminate operator error, shot several guns off same rest under same conditions I knew to be one hole accurate and got one hole groups!

Called Mike, he was surly, said return it. You can get a refund or exchange. I said prefer refund, he said ok!! When I returned it, he kept $80 of my $200 price as a "restocking fee"! When I called him and pointed out it was returned because it did not meet agreed on goals for accuracy, he basically said "tough luck, , you ain't getting your money back"!

His was the ABSOLUTE WORST "customer service" I have ever experienced.

NOTE: I saw his name in yellow, looked up his phone number on internet, and called him. The whole transaction was done over the phone, I never even saw his web site nor the disclaimer about a 25% restocking fee, and btw...$80 of $200 is WAY more than 25% by the math I learned in school!! And he NEVER mentioned a restocking fee over the phone, not in my original or subsequent conversations!

SO if he treated me like that, I am sure he has done others the same! I tried him because I heard great things about him on the internet. Judging by my experience, these reports are either coming from him or his employees.
IF you want to deal with him, fine, but buyer beware!! If he don't deliver what is promised, you are just out of luck!!! He will not deal with the situation in an honest manner.                                                                             Watch the language! Personal attacks will not be tolerated here < read the rules     dk1677 moderator               
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Privateer on June 21, 2014, 09:15:39 PM
Here We go. Good thread going bad.
 ::)
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: pcp4me on June 21, 2014, 09:16:13 PM



If he is getting 730 fps with CPHP in an XL, there is something wrong with the gun...



REALLY? What should he be getting? We were both happy with the gun, and the velocity seems about right for a springer in .22 caliber for a 14.3 grain pellet. Accuracy is what I consider good, certainly either gun will take squirrels or rabbits at 50 yards. And we rarely get that long of a shot. Usually much closer.

Btw, is 700 fps right for my Titan GP with the 14.3 gr chp?
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Privateer on June 21, 2014, 09:23:59 PM
I have an NVD that does 700 FPS with the same pellet.
The XL version of the Nitro piston is supposed to be better.
It pushes .25 cals at 770+fps in a Hatsan 125. And that's a 19.91 grain.
Granted there's a volume difference but still.

As for all the "Mike slamming"?
Have fun with that one!!
:)
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Bryan Heimann on June 21, 2014, 09:38:01 PM
730 with the standard hardwood trail would be about right.  The XL version should push CPHP at least 850 feet per second, 900+ in a hot one.
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Bryan Heimann on June 21, 2014, 09:43:05 PM


Not sure if the XS46U would count but it is a fixed barrel air rifle with an aftermarket gas ram installed by Mike Melick.  Wasn't sure if you were looking for a factory installed gas ram fixed barrel.
[/quote]


I would not recommend ANYTHING from Mike Melick! I ordered a custom QB target model. Per our phone conversation I told him I wanted it tuned for absolute target accuracy and highest velocity he could get consistent with that! Paid him, and about a week later got the gun.

HORRIBLE! Could not group 2 - 3" at 25'!!! YES, twenty five feet rested indoors. Just to eliminate operator error, shot several guns off same rest under same conditions I knew to be one hole accurate and got one hole groups!

Called Mike, he was surly, said return it. You can get a refund or exchange. I said prefer refund, he said ok!! When I returned it, he kept $80 of my $200 price as a "restocking fee"! When I called him and pointed out it was returned because it did not meet agreed on goals for accuracy, he basically said "tough luck,, you ain't getting your money back"!

His was the ABSOLUTE WORST "customer service" I have ever experienced.

NOTE: I saw his name in yellow, looked up his phone number on internet, and called him. The whole transaction was done over the phone, I never even saw his web site nor the disclaimer about a 25% restocking fee, and btw...$80 of $200 is WAY more than 25% by the math I learned in school!! And he NEVER mentioned a restocking fee over the phone, not in my original or subsequent conversations!

SO if he treated me like that, I am sure he has done others the same! I tried him because I heard great things about him on the internet. Judging by my experience, these reports are either coming from him or his employees,

IF you want to deal with him, fine, but buyer beware!! If he don't deliver what is promised, you are just out of luck!!! He will not deal with the situation in an honest manner.
[/quote]

Edit-  I hate to be the one, but here I go.  We have a new member with 8 posts bashing Mike here.  I hope I'm not the only one that sees a red flag.  I seriousely doubt any rifle that shoots 2-3" groups at 25 feet would make it out of his shop.  If any of this is true, well, if I were him I'd be "surley" too.  He does excellent work.  If you put as much into these rifles as he does, with as little in return, I imagine you'd lose it with claims like these, too.  I would put my XS28M up against any other magnum .25 ever made in the accuracy department- it is that good.  If I can group with this gun, I think anybody probably could.  Now go read the GTA rules about bashing vendors...
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Privateer on June 21, 2014, 10:11:19 PM
Ya. Kind of what I posted.
I just didn't have the heart to go all 'rico suave'.
I do stand beside you though.
 ;D
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Bryan Heimann on June 21, 2014, 10:15:48 PM
More like redneck suave, but thanks anyway. 
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: dk1677 on June 21, 2014, 10:21:47 PM
Yes personal attacks will not be tolerated here. That sure doesn't sound like Mike
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: Privateer on June 21, 2014, 10:34:22 PM
A new member can make mistakes. I know I did in a different way.
I'll ask the poster to prove what was posted if given the chance.
I'd also like to see what Mike has to say.
That should be fun if nothing else and also serve as a warning one way or another.
Ya. I'm sick like that I guess.
 ;D
Title: Re: Best Gas Piston 22 cal??
Post by: ezman604 on June 21, 2014, 10:39:19 PM

SO if he treated me like that, I am sure he has done others the same! I tried him because I heard great things about him on the internet. Judging by my experience, these reports are either coming from him or his employees.
               

No, I guess you're just special. You will find TONS of reports right here about Mike that were posted by myself and many other GTA members. I am willing to bet how the conversation actually went down, I know Mike personally. There are two sides to every transaction. And please review the rules of GTA Forums.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=919.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=919.0)
Pay particular attention to Rule #13.
Only warning. There are ways of posting about a bad transaction (by giving JUST the facts) without flaming. Mike is not in the habit of ripping anyone off. Matter of fact I don't know how he can stay in business because he gives away to the airgun community more than he brings in. Tread lightly or tread elsewhere.