MACCARI VS VORTEK for RWS 350?

[edmund]

Hello:

I have a .22 cal RWS 350 Magnum.  I've had it for 4 months now (since Aug 2010) and have 2,250 pellets through it.  I want to tune it up so it would be much smoother in cocking and shooting.  I don't want to lose the power as I shoot pigeons and crows, as well as pests around the house. I also shoot paper targets and use it for plinking.  Would you recommend the  Vortek PG2 Kit spring and guide with new Seal?  Or install JM Springs and Apex Seal with heavy tar?

If you have the same rifle and you have done a tune job with either kit, what results did you get?

Thank you for your feedback.

Edmund

[DMikeM]

Not a 350 but I have a B28 and I went Vortek. Smooth as butter to cock and is very powerful even for my high altitude situation I am shooting dime groups now at 35 yards and stack 2 of 4 pellets with it. I have an RWS 34P with the Maccari kit in it and am just not really happy with the outcome. Nice to cock but a bit harsh firing and did lose power.
If I were to shoot pigeons with my B28 I would be going through for sure, no crows here but I am sure it would be the same with the ravens. I know it goes through nutters at 40 yards.

[Onebaddj]

I have a Vortek PG2 kit in my .177 350 and its nothing short of amazing. I can hit trainer golf balls at 100 yards and it will penetrate a 1 gal milk jug full of water at the same range. At 35 yards paint balls are no problem. This thing is crazy accurate and still has a ton of power. With factory seal and PG2 kit it was getting 940's to low 950's with 8.4 gr JSB's. About 50-60 fps slower than factory spring but with all the improvements in shot cycle it was well worth the trade off. I had to reseal it because the factory seal started to give so I threw in the Vortek seal and its in the high 980's with the same pellet.

I am so impressed with the Vortek kits that when I ordered my 470 I also ordered the vortek kit and seal for it. I can get the same performance from my 470 as the 350. I would get the kit with seal you wont be dissappointed. Best 85 bucks youll spend to get that thing to shoot smoothly.  I have seriously considered the sionixx 350 kit from maccari for the 22 cal 350 I have inbound just to see what the differance is but for $40 more than a Vortek kit, I think I will just stick with what I know works, Vortek!

Good luck and let us know what you do.

[edmund]

  Thanks guys for the feedback.  I really appreciate you sharing your experiences with Vortek.  I didn't know what to do, so i ordered both.

The Vortek kit, as well as the Maccari 350 Spring arrived today.  I will be installing them tomorrow.  I will install the Maccari Spring with Apex Seal on the RWS 350 Magnum (wood stock); and install the Vortek Kit with 28 Seal on my RWS 350P Magnum (with synthetic stock). Yeah, I forgot to mention I have two 350 rifles.

I can't wait to see the results from both rifles.  I will leave feedback on my results after initial testing.  I am tempted to Chrony the two rifles after install, but that would not be an accurate assessment of fps due to potential deiseling after applying a thin coat of moly around the front and rear of the pistons. As of now (stock OEM air rifles), I am getting 820-835fps with RWS 14.5 Superdomes on both rifles as I live at 2700 ft. above sea level (FASL).

I read the instruction for the Vortek kit, and I see they indicate removing the cylinder sleeve inside the piston as well as the 5mm washer also inside the piston.  Did you also have to apply a thin coat of the included grease in the black compact container to the Vortek Spring?

The Maccari Kit indicates applying Heavy Tar to the Spring.

Thanks again,

Edmund

 

[Onebaddj]

AWESOME! cant wait to hear the side by side comparison of the 2 kits. This will be interesting and answer alot of questions.

Yes I put a light coat of the grease supplied by vortek on the spring. I have 2 Gamos that I used Maccari kits on adn used the supplied heavy tar on them also. I used light coats on the springs adn enough moly paste to get the seal to seat on the piston adn slide into the gun. Not too muchjust a thin coat. Good luck with the tunes and cant wait to hear the results.

[edmund]

Thanks DJ!

I will keep you posted when I'm done.  I think I will shoot a 250 count tin of RWS Superdome 14.5gr pellets through both rifles: RWS 350 Wood, and RWS 350P Synthetic and then run them through the Chrony.

This will take me a week or so.  During winter near Christmas, the sun sets too early in the afternoon when I return from work.  I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again,
Edmund

[GatorGunner]

I'll bet the Vortek wins  .

[gene_sc]

Let me say this.... A professional tuner using JM springs and seals with proper lubes in the right places is a better solution. Parts are cheaper as well.

[bcshooter]

 :-\I really could not decide which kit was better. I installed a VRT Maccari kit in my Diana/RWS Model 52 and the PG2 Vortek kit in my Diana/RWS Model 350 Feuerkraft . They both delivered exactly what I was looking for, teflon smooth shot cycle with a slight lost of some fps. I am truly happy with either one. The PG2 kit was not as messy to install, just a dab of lube, the Maccari kit needed some lube and messy tar on the spring.......Shoot Safe and Enjoy  

[shadow]

As Gene touched on there's more to it then just slipping a kit in. I'm sure the V-kit does smooth out a shooter but Ive always wondered how many just put the kit in without doing any proper deburing and polishing of certain part's along with giving the compression tube a proper hone then applying the lubes in the right area's. Getting the Maccarri part's installing them then not getting the expected result's. It may not be the part's but the preparation before installing them. Ed

[Mpac]

I really like Maccari parts cause they are cheap if your on a budget like me and they do work if you do your part right like the 350 pro mag spring is awesome in both my 350's i do have a vortek in my 34 classic it's a excellent shooter bit it just kills me to see the original spring guide just sitting on my desk i really like keeping my guns oem if possible, I think you will like them both i think i never tried it on a 350(vortek)here alot of good reviews.

[Jaymo]

I'm trying to decide whether to go with Maccari or Vortek kit and seals for my RWS 48. I want full power w/o spring breakage, as Dianas tend to do.

[Onebaddj]

Jaymo Id hold tight for a little while to see what edmond turns up with this experement. I am holding off to see also. Never know I might end up ordering the Maccari kit for the 350. Might even order the parts and have one of the magicians on here do some magic. I know what I can do but am curious about what a pro tuner could do.

[edmund]

Thanks you guys for the replies and feedback.

@shadow & gene - Your point is well taken and thank you.  I know a professional airgunsmith can do a better job because of their experience and proper tools but I do want to learn how to do it.

I also know that I am mechanically inclined.  I do my own repair work in the car. I did also order the moly, clear tar, & heavy tar from AirRifleHeaquarters (Maccari) and I did disassemble both rifles and used brake cleaner to clean off the inside of the receiver tube. I also cleaned, honed, de-burred (piston slot), and sanded the piston with fine sandpaper to a point that it is shinny.  Granted, I don't have a small bore hone to cross-hone inside the receiver tube, but I did clean it out thoroughly with a 1/2in. thick wood dowel rod (available at Michael's Art supplies) tied to an old toothbrush or small bottle brush and scrubbed the inside receiver tube to make sure it's clean -- especially the front end of the receiver toward the breech. No more gunk inside the tube and smooth.  I did the same for the inner cylinder tube inside the piston as I need this tube for the Maccari application.

I placed the new seals in running hot tap water for 2 minutes to soften it, then I installed it on the piston -- it popped right in --then I turned it to make sure the seal is seated well to the front piston round dovetail. AirRifleHeadquarters talk about using a hot blow dryer before installing new seals to the piston.

I applied a thin coat of moly around the front and rear of the piston and it slipped right in to the receiver. (I found this from PyramydAir.com tuning blog)

I then applied heavy tar and installed the 350 Mag Spring from Maccari.  I then applied clear tar to break barrel joints and cocking lever connections, ball bearing below the breech, and cocking guide slot, etc.

I reassembled the rifle and loctite the stock and trigger screws.  Im done with the RWS350 (Wood Stock) Maccari Mag Spring and Apex Seal.

I did the same for the RWS350P in terms of cleaning. The Vortek PG2 Kit required that I remove the inner piston cylinder sleeve and 5mm thick washer so I did.  I then installed the PG2 28Seal to the shinny clean piston after honing the piston slot and sanding the piston walls. Again running hot tap water onto the seal first before install.  I applied the supplied grease or tar to the outside of the Vortek Spring (not too thick and not too thin).  I then as before, applied a thin coat of moly around the front and rear of the piston and slipped it inside the receiver.  I then inserted the Vortek Spring and Guide into the receiver.  I installed the cocking lever and repeated the same Clear Tar lube as before.  I reassembled the RWS 350P (Syntetic Stock) and loctite the stock and front trigger guard screw.

I'm done for today. I will be shooting both rifles after work, perhaps an hour after work - Mon, Wed, Fri, for the RWS350 Magnum (Wood Stock) with Maccari Springs. Tue, Thu, Sat, for the RWS350P (Synthetic Stock) with Vortek PG2 Spring and Guide.

All I can tell you right now, is that both rifles cock much much smoother. No spring vibration or noise from either rifle.  I find the Maccari spring is slightly harder to cock as the spring seems thicker - not necessarily longer than the Vortek. Although I cock it just enough not to lock the end of the piston to the sear of the trigger housing assembly.  I have to wait until the loctite dries before I fire them.

I will repost and give my initial impression during the middle of the week after I fire both rifles.  I can't wait.

Thanks again to all of you for your input.  Through this we can all learn from each other in support of our airgun hobby!

 

[Atchman2]

I'm trying to decide whether to go with Maccari or Vortek kit and seals for my RWS 48. I want full power w/o spring breakage, as Dianas tend to do.

HEY! Where you been man?  I'm STILL shooting that TF 99 without any problems at all! 

[GatorGunner]

I'm trying to decide whether to go with Maccari or Vortek kit and seals for my RWS 48. I want full power w/o spring breakage, as Dianas tend to do.

HEY! Where you been man?  I'm STILL shooting that TF 99 without any problems at all! 

I was wonder where you had been, but that avatar picture answers it, you've been coon hunting .

[edmund]

I was supposed to have the CHRONY and results of  both rifles after firing 250 pellets (1 tin or RWS 14.5g .22 Superdomes ea.) through both rifles (RWS 350 Mag Wood Stock with Maccari Spring & Seal vs. RWS 350P Synthetic Stock with PG2 Vortek Spring and Seal) this weekend, but the rain has put a damper on my plans.

It has been raining all weekend 12-18-10 and even today 12-20-10.  Weather forecast calls for more rain with the big storm to hit Wed. 12-22-10, may last through Christmas.

I will update again at a later date with my findings.  Initial impression tells me that the Vortek is slightly easier to cock and somewhat less  recoil as the Maccari 350 Mag Spring.  But the Maccari set up is way easier to cock than stock springs.  Both rifles are smooth as silk to cock and just based on initial impression, the Maccari feels more powerful, perhaps because of slightly stronger recoil (we'll see). Also, I noticed the Maccari spring is not necessarily longer but slightly thicker than the Vortek Spring in term of wire diameter. No spring twang with either rifles -- sweet.  Again, the CHRONY will tell the story.

I will post again soon when I have the results.

[patton1]

Sounds good and thanks for the update.

[edmund]

Well, it's Dec. 26, 2010, overcast with some blue skies and about 62 degrees F. outside. with my bench and CHRONY and targets at 20 yards.  Remember, I'm at 2,700 feet above sea level here in So Cal.  Well, I ran both rifles through the CHRONY and I have the results. Please consider my elevation and outside temp. as lower elevation and denser air may give you higher velocities.  Remember, both RWS350 rifles when stock was shooting 820-835fps with 14.5gr RWS Superdomes at 2,700 ft. above sea level.

MACCARI VS VORTEK for RWS 350?

Please keep in mind that each rifle, although similar or the same models may prefer one pellet over the other.  Therefore, higher velocities on certain pellets may not necessarily mean better accuracy for the rifle tested.  That being said, I am just here to give you an objective view of the results after installing a MACCARI Pro Mag Spring and Tar with Apex Seal on my RWS350 Wood Stock rifle vs. VORTEK Pro-Guide2 (PG2) Kit with new Vortek 28Seal on my RWS 350P Mag Synthetic Stock rifle. Both are .22 cal.  Both being equal, Maccari Spring with Maccari Apex Seal vs. Vortek Spring and Guide, with Votek 28Seal.

TALE OF THE CHRONY:

MACCARI KIT on RWS 350 MAGNUM WITH Wood Stock with new Maccari Apex Seal (10 shots per pellet type):

RWS Superdomes 14.5gr .22 cal. in fps = 812, 812.3, 814, 812.5, 814.2, 813, 818, 811,803, & 815.2 = 812.53fps average
RWS Super Hollow Point 14.2gr .22 cal in fps = 834.8, 818.9, 828.2, 817.5, 828.8, 833.2, 835.8, 819.5, 834.4, & 833.3 = 828.44 fps average



VORTEK PG2 KIT 350 MAG on RWS 350P MAGNUM WITH Synthetic Stock with new Vortek 28Seal (10 shots per pellet type):

RWS Superdomes 14.5gr .22 cal in fps = 876.9, 875.2, 876.9, 875.7, 862.6, 872.6, 870.7, 869.6, 858.8, & 872.3 = 871.13 fps average
RWS Super Hollow Point 14.2gr .22 cal in fps = 873.8, 871.1, 881.6, 873.8, 877.4, 874.8, 869.4, 869.2, 873.9, & 872.4 = 873.74 fps average

I was rather surprised because the Maccari kit feels more powerful as it was very very slightly harder to cock by a few lbs. vs the Vortek. Both rifles are silky smooth to cock and both are without vibration or spring twang.  Both are smooth firing cycles with minimal recoil compared to stock. The Vortek surprised me because although it feels ever so slightly easier to cock than the Maccari, the Vortek delivered more fps!

Shooting Characteristics:  Both rifles are .22 cal.

The RWS350 Wood with Maccari Spring & Tar with Apex Seal is silky smooth to cock with gradual increasing tension until the piston rod is caught in the sear of the trigger housing; and the firing cycle is short with 35% less recoil from stock. Just a nice "thunk." No spring twang or vibration.  Before, I used to hear spring vibration when cocking.

The RWS350P Synthetic rifle with the PG2 Vortek kit and 28Seal however is teflon smooth with slightly less cocking resistance or tension until you get beyond 3/4 of the way cocked and the piston rod catches the sear of the trigger housing.  The firing cycle is smooth and short like the Maccari but with less perceived recoil or about 40% less recoil from a stock rifle. Again, just a short sound of "thunk" with no spring twang or vibration.  

Both kits are very good.  I guess either tune kit is better than stock.  Based on just speed alone, I would go with Vortek. Accuracy requires further testing as certain barrels or rifles may prefer a different pellet for accuracy.

I will be doing an accuracy test and see what the difference is between the two, although pellets will vary in accuracy on either rifle.  I still need to try out different pellets on the CHRONY and give an update later.

Till then, Happy Holidays and Happy New Year!

[Calmark]

Great info edmund!  Thanks for taking the time and effort to give us your data on the two.  Interesting how your gut feeling about the JM kit being more powerful was actually lower than the Vortek.  Keep us posted with the accuracy results.  I'll be looking forward to reading about them!