HW30s/R7 Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.



Author Topic: HW30s/R7 Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.  (Read 5731 times)

Offline Petey

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HW30s/R7 Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« on: July 02, 2012, 05:45:58 PM »
Since I made mention of an easier method to install the Hw30s cocking insert , I have received several e-mails requesting "How To".
In answer to that I went back to my 30 and removed the insert and then installed a new one ,so I would know that my directions are correct.

To those of whom I asked to be patient and wait ,I thank you.

Here it is ....My simplified method HW30s Cocking insert How to.
 
*** Please note the fastest way to do this is ...."Take your Time."****
This procedure is simple and easy ,but it does take some effort.......just be patient go slow .. your efforts will be rewarded with newly acquired skills and knowledge, Enabling you to speak from experience and assist others.

So Let's GO!



Place your amazing new Hw30s on a clean soft surface .


Remove the Stock ( I place all my hardware on a soft towel , so nothing rolls away)


Tap the pin out 8/10 of the way . No need to remove it.






Pull cocking lever towards you. This will give you all the room you need. ( if lever does not move , just wiggle the pin out a bit more)


Cut a one inch and two inch long piece from the insert material.




Take the two inch piece and cut the legs off it.  Then use whatever you have to smooth it out. No need to be perfect at all. You will need to remove some material from the sides too. Just so you  can snug it into the cocking lever.This piece is a spacer that will lay flat on the bottom of the cocking lever.


You now have flat piece to lay in the bottom of the cocking lever. Taper the end to the left .Install the shim ,right side first and the tapered end as far forward (toward the pivot) as you can.
** Tapered end towards the pivot***


Offset Needle Nose make this much easier. Holding the spacer,Install the far right side first.


Put the one inch piece on top of the spacer(legs down)..and give it a good squeeze to seat the spacer.

The insert will be sticking up a bit.  Now remove the one inch insert. I used a allen wrench to pry it up.


Take it to a hair taller than a 1/4".  Use any method you got....Don't breath this stuff! (***** When shaping the insert I tapered the ends ,left and right so they are ramped, this allows travel over the compression tube to be smoother )


Put the insert back in and give it a squeeze.


Put your pin back in and give it a Half cock....don't go till it locks. ***If the pin needs to be driven in you may still be too tall...a need to lightly tap it you're in the neighborhood....can push it by hand ...very very near, proceed with caution so as not to take off too much*****)
The cocking action will seat the insert. You should be about 10 thousandths proud. (no need to be exact. a little less is better)
It's ok if the insert rubs a bit. You may need to adjust the height of the insert many times before it is within range....It's ok . It took me at least 15 or 20 adjustments....Again take your time , take a break...your almost there.

 If all is good, pull the pin again , pull the lever towards you and put a little Moly on the insert and a dab on the back of the cocking lever were it passes over the pin.
As Moly goes.Use what's available,no need to special order just for this.
( Honda is perfect for this)

Reinsert the pin  and Viola!


Happy Shootin To All!
Petey.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 03:38:00 PM by Petey »
  • Morgan Hill, CA.
RWS 48 T05 .177  Macarri Soft Kit

Beeman    R7-11   Custom   .177
Wiehrauch HW30S Deluxe   .177 
Wiehrauch HW50S              .177

Crosman 102  1927-29

AM77-Centerpoint 3x9x40
1953-54 Daisy Defender

Offline robert w

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Re: Under contruction Cocking lever insert How to
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2012, 06:37:45 PM »
well presented petey
in 1939 hitler said give up your guns and germany will be a safer place... then a short time after all guns were taken ,he told the jews "board the train" a word in histroy

Offline jdub

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Re: Under contruction Cocking lever insert How to
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2012, 06:42:07 PM »
Excellent instructions!  Thank you very much for taking the time to do this!  I have it bookmarked and will definitely use your method if/when I do this.

I sincerely appreciate your efforts!

Jerry
  • Frisco, TX

Offline wms

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Re: HW30s Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2012, 08:01:07 PM »
Thanks so much for putting this together Petey! Great instructions. You make it look easy!
HW30s, .177
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Offline Nikoman

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Re: HW30s Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2012, 09:04:00 PM »
Nice work there, Petey!!
And it was nice meeting last week ;)
  • Sacramento, CA
AA Pro Sport(.177)Walnut~Leupold VX-3 6.5-20X40 TMR
AA TX200HC(.177)Walnut~Clearidge 6-20x40
Theoben Crow Magnum(.25)~Leupold EFR
Beeman Kodiak (UK Patriot)(.25)
Beeman Bearcub(Webley Vulcan Mk3 KS)(.177)~Leupold VX-2 EFR
Beeman RX-1/HW90 (.20)~Leupold EFR
Beeman R7(1980)
Beeman HW30M*(1980)
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Offline Mark 611

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Re: HW30s Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2012, 12:50:16 AM »
well done good job on this post Pete! :P
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Offline BlueSteel50

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Re: HW30s Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2012, 01:09:01 AM »
Good Post no blood, does the HW50s work the same way ? ~~BS50
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For SECURITY."-_Norman Vincent Peale-____________________REMEMBER. "SECURITY
WITHOUT LIBERTY Is Called PRISON."---J.L.W

Offline Petey

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Re: HW30s Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2012, 01:58:01 AM »
Good Post no blood, does the HW50s work the same way ? ~~BS50

No.....The 50'S is a different beast all together and  I will not address that issue in this post.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 01:35:06 PM by Petey »
  • Morgan Hill, CA.
RWS 48 T05 .177  Macarri Soft Kit

Beeman    R7-11   Custom   .177
Wiehrauch HW30S Deluxe   .177 
Wiehrauch HW50S              .177

Crosman 102  1927-29

AM77-Centerpoint 3x9x40
1953-54 Daisy Defender

Offline jdub

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Re: HW30s Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2012, 05:39:42 PM »
I just finished installing the insert a couple of hours ago.  Pete's guide was very helpful and Pete himself was kind enough to give me some tips during what turned out to be a more involved process than I had anticipated.

Last week I put a tiny scratch on the barrel on my HW03S.  With that my gun was no longer mint so I decided to go ahead and install the insert.  I'd been holding off because I didn't want to ding it up.  Now that it was "broken in" I could take it apart without worrying. :)  (BTW, Van's Instant Gun Blue is awesome! Fixed the scratch.)

To install the cocking lever insert I initially followed Pete's instructions very carefully.  However, when I removed the pin from the lever support bracket and broke the barrel I noticed a little bit of roughness in the breech block/pivot bolt area.  I knew the breech block wasn't lubed properly because it would start squeaking every once in a while I all I could do was run some gun oil or other thin lubricant down in there.  I decided since I already had it out of the stock to go ahead and pull the pivot bin out and I was glad I did.

What I found was some galling where the thrust washers (pivot shims) were pressed up against the breech block, a small burr in the pivot hole on one side, and a small tear and kink in the very thin thrust washer on the same side.  Both sides were almost dry as well.  When I tried to hammer the washer flat it tore even worse and became unusable.  Dang.  Back to the insert... 

First a pause while I talk about the insert.  When I first received it and saw how long it was I (wrongly) assumed that you put a 3" to 4" piece in the lever arm.  This is not the case.  Pete shows in his instructions that a 1" piece is all you need and this was important in my case for a couple of reasons.  First, the lever arm only contacts the tube in one small area--at least on my gun.  And second, the more you have in there the more friction you're going to create.  Even with moly a long insert under pressure will not *glide* like you might think.  Back to my gun...

At this point I went ahead and installed the long flat piece of the lever insert into the lever.  This was easy because I had complete access.  I tried the upper piece several times, starting off with a piece about 2" long.  Way too long.  I shortened it to an inch like Pete suggests and started again from there.  What I found was that on my gun anyway, the tolerances of the lever arm against the tube are very tight.  I don't think in thousandths like Pete so I started off with about 1/16" of insert above poking out above the arm.  WAY too much.  I halved that to about 1/32" better but still too much friction when cocking.  Much more than you might think.  I took some more off.  I repeated this a couple more times and each time there was still more friction on the cocking lever than I wanted.  Finally I took too much off and the insert didn't even touch the tube.  Fail.  At this point I knew I was going to be taking the gun apart again to install new shims when they came so I buttoned everything up and just left the lower piece of the insert in place. 

I got the new shims yesterday (Pyramyd is the only place in the US I could find that had them in stock and they're a Beeman part number--BN Pivot Point Spacer - PY-A-3759 $5 ea).   They're the same thickness as the originals but about 1/8" larger in diameter, which worked at well in my case because they completely covered the galling on the breech block.

Armed with my shims and a few hours to spare I started in on the repair again last night. I quickly got the shims installed with a thin coat of moly everywhere it was needed.  Cool, properly lubed breech block pivot assembly.  I reattached the barrel and it was time for the shim--this time using Pete's method almost exactly.

I PM'd Pete a couple of times during the past week while I was waiting for my parts and found out there was one thing that Pete did that I didn't, and that was taper the sides of the top of the insert so the full 1" of insert isn't contacting the tube.  That was the key in my case.  I still ended up removing and installing that pin about 20 times while I tested the insert for correct height.  Pete stressed in his guide to take your time and you really need to.  I ruined a couple more small pieces of the insert by taking too much off.  The margin for error in my case was very very small.  Pete mentions 10 thousandths or less.  For those of us who think in fractions that's a little over 1/128" and less would probably be better. 

Eventually I nailed it.  I should have taken a pic but by then I was just ready to be done.  My insert is about 1" long and tapers on the sides and front and back.  A sharp taper on the front and a long taper on the back.  The result is that only a very small section of the insert--about 1/4" long and just over an 3/16" wide actually contacts the tube, and this small section is just *barely* proud of the lever sides.  I suspect that there is some variation here from gun to gun because I haven't read of anyone else having such tight tolerances but maybe they just didn't mention it.

The end result is that when I tighten the pivot bolt to the point where there's no side to side play but the barrel still moves freely, that very small contact patch on the cocking lever insert will hold the barrel in place in any position after cocking.  The additional force needed to cock the gun isn't noticeable.  Unlike when I had a large area of the insert contacting the tube, this small patch (with a coat of moly on it) glides on the tube instead of dragging. 

Everything is back together and it's driving tacks again.  Pete's guide was extremely helpful but Pete himself turned out to be even more helpful, offering advice and insight.  Great guy!  Thanks Pete!

Sorry this is so long--just thought it might help someone else.  Of course if you follow Pete's guide closely you'll be fine.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 05:41:24 PM by jdub »
  • Frisco, TX

Offline Petey

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Re: HW30s Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2012, 03:41:53 PM »
Thank you Jerry. The pleasure was all mine.
I'm happy to read of your success and grateful for you having shared you're experience .
I know this will inspire others ,who may be sitting on the fence, to get that insert installed before they ruin their Compression tubes.

I have updated a few sections of the guide as a result of our correspondence. It should make some areas a bit more clear.
But just the same....if anyone gets stuck , has questions or needs a hand in any way...just ask and I'll do what I can.

Happy Shootin To All!
Petey.
  • Morgan Hill, CA.
RWS 48 T05 .177  Macarri Soft Kit

Beeman    R7-11   Custom   .177
Wiehrauch HW30S Deluxe   .177 
Wiehrauch HW50S              .177

Crosman 102  1927-29

AM77-Centerpoint 3x9x40
1953-54 Daisy Defender

Offline amb5500c

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Re: HW30s Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2012, 04:48:16 PM »
Great post Petey.
Richard
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Offline jdub

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Re: HW30s Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2012, 05:22:17 PM »
Great post Petey.
I concur.  :)

Unless you've done a well documented step by step guide complete with good photos you don't realize how much time and effort are involved.   Pete has done a great service for every HW30S/R7 owner out there.  And in case you missed it--Pete actually disassembled a gun which he'd already completed just to show the rest of us how to do it.   

I'm very appreciative because not only will I be making my compression tube last longer but once I had the gun apart I found the problem with the breech and breech block shim, which was causing more damage than the cocking lever and Pete also made some suggestions here that saved me a lot of work. 

Thanks again for the motivation, Pete!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 05:24:25 PM by jdub »
  • Frisco, TX

Offline robert w

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Re: HW30s/R7 Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2012, 10:20:38 PM »
now if we could get petey to write the instructions for other guns we could be a lot better off . ever look at the manual for a new gun that says easy to adjust,turn screw 1 turn and back screw [z] in 1 turn . no photos or description of where and which is screw b +z ??? great job petey
in 1939 hitler said give up your guns and germany will be a safer place... then a short time after all guns were taken ,he told the jews "board the train" a word in histroy

Offline Petey

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Re: HW30s/R7 Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2012, 12:43:20 AM »
now if we could get petey to write the instructions for other guns we could be a lot better off . ever look at the manual for a new gun that says easy to adjust,turn screw 1 turn and back screw [z] in 1 turn . no photos or description of where and which is screw b +z ??? great job petey

I'll get to work on that one right away.  Which one ya want first? LOl
  • Morgan Hill, CA.
RWS 48 T05 .177  Macarri Soft Kit

Beeman    R7-11   Custom   .177
Wiehrauch HW30S Deluxe   .177 
Wiehrauch HW50S              .177

Crosman 102  1927-29

AM77-Centerpoint 3x9x40
1953-54 Daisy Defender

Offline Nikoman

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Re: HW30s/R7 Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2012, 12:49:06 AM »
now if we could get petey to write the instructions for other guns we could be a lot better off . ever look at the manual for a new gun that says easy to adjust,turn screw 1 turn and back screw [z] in 1 turn . no photos or description of where and which is screw b +z ??? great job petey

I'll get to work on that one right away.  Which one ya want first? LOl
Wow, that might be a manual I might actually read ;D ;D
  • Sacramento, CA
AA Pro Sport(.177)Walnut~Leupold VX-3 6.5-20X40 TMR
AA TX200HC(.177)Walnut~Clearidge 6-20x40
Theoben Crow Magnum(.25)~Leupold EFR
Beeman Kodiak (UK Patriot)(.25)
Beeman Bearcub(Webley Vulcan Mk3 KS)(.177)~Leupold VX-2 EFR
Beeman RX-1/HW90 (.20)~Leupold EFR
Beeman R7(1980)
Beeman HW30M*(1980)
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Offline Petey

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Re: HW30s/R7 Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2012, 01:08:10 AM »
OK....so can someone give me a job as a technical writer?  Please...
  • Morgan Hill, CA.
RWS 48 T05 .177  Macarri Soft Kit

Beeman    R7-11   Custom   .177
Wiehrauch HW30S Deluxe   .177 
Wiehrauch HW50S              .177

Crosman 102  1927-29

AM77-Centerpoint 3x9x40
1953-54 Daisy Defender

Offline Nikoman

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Re: HW30s/R7 Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2012, 01:09:37 AM »
I think you just found your calling... ;)

I think you'd be really good at it!
  • Sacramento, CA
AA Pro Sport(.177)Walnut~Leupold VX-3 6.5-20X40 TMR
AA TX200HC(.177)Walnut~Clearidge 6-20x40
Theoben Crow Magnum(.25)~Leupold EFR
Beeman Kodiak (UK Patriot)(.25)
Beeman Bearcub(Webley Vulcan Mk3 KS)(.177)~Leupold VX-2 EFR
Beeman RX-1/HW90 (.20)~Leupold EFR
Beeman R7(1980)
Beeman HW30M*(1980)
UK Webley Stingray(.22)

Offline robert w

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Re: HW30s/R7 Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2012, 10:17:42 PM »
there you go petey . and you said we dont help you haha . it would be great if they did send us manuals with full instructions not 32 pages of safety &^^& and 1.1 pages on the use and care and adjustments of any thing we buy nowdays. for example a $210000 new john deere 4 wheel tractor has exactly 55 pages on safety and only 47 on the actual machine . to get the whole manual they ask you $100 for another manual with the same 55 pages of safety and 200 on the machine . you would think for the price they would come out n furnish tp
in 1939 hitler said give up your guns and germany will be a safer place... then a short time after all guns were taken ,he told the jews "board the train" a word in histroy

Offline jdub

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Re: HW30s/R7 Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2012, 10:32:23 PM »
OK....so can someone give me a job as a technical writer?  Please...
Don't sell yourself short.

In my line of work an engineer figures out a new method to do something , explains it to the tech writer, who figures out how to explain it to everyone who is not an engineer.

In this case you're the engineer and the tech writer.  You earned a big raise. :)
  • Frisco, TX

Offline Petey

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Re: HW30s/R7 Cocking lever Insert. How to: Simple method.
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2012, 12:10:26 AM »
OK....so can someone give me a job as a technical writer?  Please...
Don't sell yourself short.

In my line of work an engineer figures out a new method to do something , explains it to the tech writer, who figures out how to explain it to everyone who is not an engineer.

In this case you're the engineer and the tech writer.  You earned a big raise. :)


If I'm working for nothing ...How much more did I earn? LOl           


Thanks Jerry.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 12:14:53 AM by Petey »
  • Morgan Hill, CA.
RWS 48 T05 .177  Macarri Soft Kit

Beeman    R7-11   Custom   .177
Wiehrauch HW30S Deluxe   .177 
Wiehrauch HW50S              .177

Crosman 102  1927-29

AM77-Centerpoint 3x9x40
1953-54 Daisy Defender

How do you word it... "Air Guns" or "AirGuns"?