Hatsan Mod 125 TH (**UPDATED**)

[Paul68]

First round of accuracy testing was more about me figuring out how to shoot this rifle. It is very hold sensitive, and any change in hold produces a very noticable change in accuracy. Big part of the problem for me is the thumbhole stock. I noted that with this type of stock I apparently tend to pull the back end of the rifle down when shouldering it, rather than straight back into my shoulder. Once I figured that out, things improved a bit. However, I am still nailing down just how to hold it for consistent results.

That said, here are some preliminary target results at 25 yrds.

The center is me deciding which hold to go with. The corners are the attempts at grouping.
As the gun loosens up with 200 shots through it, it seems to like the heavier Barracudas more than the Kodiaks. Best group was  the 21 gr Barracudas with 18 gr Kodiaks in second, and the lighter 14+ grain FTS Copper's and Crosman premiers not doing well at all.

I am fairly confident that with more time and more loosening, this gun will improve. Given that, I will be tuning it in the next week or so to smooth it out as much as possible. Guess this means I am keeping it.

[Mike 4888blues]

  are  you going  to install the two front trigger screws

[Paul68]

  are  you going  to install the two front trigger screws

No. The trigger is not bad, only in need of smoothing and perhaps some removal of the side to side play. Otherwise it is already a good design in and of itself. The travel is nowhere near as bad as my Crosman trigger, and on par with the Ruger Airhawk trigger before it was cleaned up. I think with some polishing and shimming it will likely be the best mechanical feature on the gun.

Besides the Gas Spring I'll install

[Mike 4888blues]

  are  you going  to install the two front trigger screws

No. The trigger is not bad, only in need of smoothing and perhaps some removal of the side to side play. Otherwise it is already a good design in and of itself. The travel is nowhere near as bad as my Crosman trigger, and on par with the Ruger Airhawk trigger before it was cleaned up. I think with some polishing and shimming it will likely be the best mechanical feature on the gun.

Besides the Gas Spring I'll install

 hhmmm  that's a shame sawtooth just put the new screws in, I gave him the info  on what to get and where and he is  totally freaked out how good it is now and is very happy / he added a post some where on his experience with it.
 magnum116 told me about them initially,  then i did it, so far i shared the info to a handful of gta members so i suspect they will come back feeling  the same as sawtooth 

  the wiggle did not bother anything i liked it. feels like a suspended sweet trigger 

[DeathMetalMax]

Hey guys just wanted to let you know that I chronographed my Hatsan 125th .22 and with my 18.13 grain JSB pellets I got an average of 833 fps with no more than a difference of 6 fps per shot. One thing I would like to advise you all of, is that the 25.54 grain JSB Monsters only shot an average of 558 fps so I would not recommend shooting pellets with a weight above 20 grains out of the .22 125 Hatsan models.

[huklbery]

Hey guys just wanted to let you know that I chronographed my Hatsan 125th .22 and with my 18.13 grain JSB pellets I got an average of 833 fps with no more than a difference of 6 fps per shot. One thing I would like to advise you all of, is that the 25.54 grain JSB Monsters only shot an average of 558 fps so I would not recommend shooting pellets with a weight above 20 grains out of the .22 125 Hatsan models.

Thats a little lower than I would have expected, did you have any 14.3g's to try?  My 95 .22 did the advertised 800fps with the 14.3's but my .177 95 only did 900fps with the 7.9g.  Sure enough when I opened it up it had a seal eating defect. 

If it will not reach near the advertised FPS with the factory tested weight pellet, you may want to contact Hatsan USA.  Do not open a Hatsan air rifle yourself though without knowing you have no factory part support nor warranty afterward. They do indicate so far they intend to aggressively replace warranty issues. 

Mark

[Lambchops]

Hey guys just wanted to let you know that I chronographed my Hatsan 125th .22 and with my 18.13 grain JSB pellets I got an average of 833 fps with no more than a difference of 6 fps per shot. One thing I would like to advise you all of, is that the 25.54 grain JSB Monsters only shot an average of 558 fps so I would not recommend shooting pellets with a weight above 20 grains out of the .22 125 Hatsan models.

Thats a little lower than I would have expected, did you have any 14.3g's to try?  My 95 .22 did the advertised 800fps with the 14.3's but my .177 95 only did 900fps with the 7.9g.  Sure enough when I opened it up it had a seal eating defect. 

If it will not reach near the advertised FPS with the factory tested weight pellet, you may want to contact Hatsan USA.  Do not open a Hatsan air rifle yourself though without knowing you have no factory part support nor warranty afterward. They do indicate so far they intend to aggressively replace warranty issues. 

Mark

833 FPS with an 18.3 gr is a little lower than expected? That is 28 FPE in .22 with only 6 FPS of extreme spread. Not even the .25 125 will get 28 FPE with some pellets.

[huklbery]

Good point I was comparing it to my PCP's rather than springers in fps, in ftlbs it dosn't get much better with mortals cocking it

[microsalmo]

Hey guys just wanted to let you know that I chronographed my Hatsan 125th .22 and with my 18.13 grain JSB pellets I got an average of 833 fps with no more than a difference of 6 fps per shot. One thing I would like to advise you all of, is that the 25.54 grain JSB Monsters only shot an average of 558 fps so I would not recommend shooting pellets with a weight above 20 grains out of the .22 125 Hatsan models.

I dont know if this is sound advice for the 125. My TH has been pushing the 19.91gr to an average of 848 fps with 2.44 standard deviation. The 25.39gr Kings, it has been pushing to an average of 760 fps with a standard deviation of also 2.44 fps.  Even the 31gr Baracuda and Superdome are being pushed to 675 fps with 3 fps standard deviation.

Im not sure what this means persay, but the 125 I got is doing great with the heavier pellets. Of course this one is in .25, but I believe the guns are otherwise the same, no?

[Mike 4888blues]

[i]Here's Rick Ustlers review on the sniper 125  same rifle/ btw  he loved the hatsan 125 sniper.25

I love watching  this video because you can see how much rick is surprised by the awesome results, and how much  he likes this rifle.

You know rick, he will not give you any fluff lol[/i]

[Paul68]

Hey guys just wanted to let you know that I chronographed my Hatsan 125th .22 and with my 18.13 grain JSB pellets I got an average of 833 fps with no more than a difference of 6 fps per shot. One thing I would like to advise you all of, is that the 25.54 grain JSB Monsters only shot an average of 558 fps so I would not recommend shooting pellets with a weight above 20 grains out of the .22 125 Hatsan models.

I dont know if this is sound advice for the 125. My TH has been pushing the 19.91gr to an average of 848 fps with 2.44 standard deviation. The 25.39gr Kings, it has been pushing to an average of 760 fps with a standard deviation of also 2.44 fps.  Even the 31gr Baracuda and Superdome are being pushed to 675 fps with 3 fps standard deviation.

Im not sure what this means persay, but the 125 I got is doing great with the heavier pellets. Of course this one is in .25, but I believe the guns are otherwise the same, no?

The smaller calibers have less pellet area for energy transfer, so the limit for weight is somewhat lower than with higher calibers, at least as I understand it.

[microsalmo]

... and I was thinking his gun just didn't like that pellet. To go from 825 on a 20gr to 575 on a 25 gr is not typical.  A few stairs were missed in that decent, lol. 

[DeathMetalMax]

Hey guys just wanted to let you know that I chronographed my Hatsan 125th .22 and with my 18.13 grain JSB pellets I got an average of 833 fps with no more than a difference of 6 fps per shot. One thing I would like to advise you all of, is that the 25.54 grain JSB Monsters only shot an average of 558 fps so I would not recommend shooting pellets with a weight above 20 grains out of the .22 125 Hatsan models.

Thats a little lower than I would have expected, did you have any 14.3g's to try?  My 95 .22 did the advertised 800fps with the 14.3's but my .177 95 only did 900fps with the 7.9g.  Sure enough when I opened it up it had a seal eating defect. 

If it will not reach near the advertised FPS with the factory tested weight pellet, you may want to contact Hatsan USA.  Do not open a Hatsan air rifle yourself though without knowing you have no factory part support nor warranty afterward. They do indicate so far they intend to aggressively replace warranty issues. 

Mark

I got some crosman premier hollow points on the way and I'll check those out. But I believe Hatsan tests their velocities with the RWS Hobby pellets and those only weigh 11.9 grains, so I am by no means dissapointed with the velocities I got with the 18.13 grain JSB's. I'll let you know how the 14.3 gr CPHP do with it though.

[DeathMetalMax]

Hey guys just wanted to let you know that I chronographed my Hatsan 125th .22 and with my 18.13 grain JSB pellets I got an average of 833 fps with no more than a difference of 6 fps per shot. One thing I would like to advise you all of, is that the 25.54 grain JSB Monsters only shot an average of 558 fps so I would not recommend shooting pellets with a weight above 20 grains out of the .22 125 Hatsan models.

I dont know if this is sound advice for the 125. My TH has been pushing the 19.91gr to an average of 848 fps with 2.44 standard deviation. The 25.39gr Kings, it has been pushing to an average of 760 fps with a standard deviation of also 2.44 fps.  Even the 31gr Baracuda and Superdome are being pushed to 675 fps with 3 fps standard deviation.

Im not sure what this means persay, but the 125 I got is doing great with the heavier pellets. Of course this one is in .25, but I believe the guns are otherwise the same, no?

That's some serious power. I'm pretty sure that has something to do with it being in a .25, I'd have to do some homework to be sure though. So have you done any tuning with your 125th?

[microsalmo]

No I just got it last week.  My reviews - part I, II, and III are right below yours on this page. If you read them, it may answer some of your questions. If I can help, let me know. Steve

[Paul68]

**Update**

Well, my new seals for my Diana 48/52 and the 125 came in from J-M, so of course I blew off the rest of the nights work and had to tear down the 125

I've known something was wrong with this gun. The power was down, it was violent, it was noisy, and just all around did not feel like a well put together piece of machinery.

As the following pictures will show, there is indeed something wrong.

I am throwing this up for the moment as I honestly just feel the need to put it up here before continuning with the cleanup and tuning. Just on teardown, several things are immediately clear.

#1. There was a serious lack of QC when this rifle was assembled.

#2. There is no refinement in the powerplant. Everything is BIG, but that is where it ends. Everything has either a razor sharp edge, or is rough like 80 grit, machining marks abound, and it is full of gunk and grit. These internals look every bit as bad, if not worse than those of my WallyWorld Storm when I tore it down.

#3. Everything on this gun is overlubed, EXCEPT the powerplant, which is very dry except for dirty oil on the piston seal itself. The spring has the barest touch of oil and the guide is dry. Don't ask me how they did it. Somehow they managed to bathe this gun in oil, which was dripping out of the stock when I removed the action from it, and yet get almost none on the powerplant lol.

#4. The compression area within the reciever is scratched and gored by loose peices of metal. You can see what I am talking about when you view the pics. All those tiny dots in the pics on the piston and seal? That's metal and grit. I am seriously wondering if honing will be enough to clean it up it's that bad.

#5. The overlubing carried on to the trigger assembly. Just like with the barrel pivot, huge gobs of red grease all over the trigger assembly.

Now for the best part of this adventure......

The reciever plug holds everything in, and it is nothing but a piece of poorly cast plastic. It was jammed into the end of the receiver. How bad was it?

Well, when I took the pressure off with the spring compressor, once the press block came away from the action I thought the preload was off the spring. Haha! Surprise! No it wasn't!

 The jammed in the end plastic block was so poorly finished and fitted, that it literally was hung up on the retaining pin holes. I had the whole thing out of the compressor and in my hands, and was about the pull on the plastic block to remove it from the reciever, when it occurred to me that it seemed like an awfully small amount of preload was taken off.

 At this point, a bad feeling rose in my gut, and I immediately pointed the d*!# thing towards the open garage door. Pointing towards the yard, I lightly tapped the block with a screwdriver. The entire spring, guide, and plastic block shot 20 feet into the yard. Disaster averted, I began planning what I would write in a nastygram to be sent to Hatsan later this evening

All joking aside, this guns internals are only what can honestly be called a huge and definite mess. As we all know, one bad instance doesn't a rule make. But, this makes the second documented instance of metal debris inside a Hatsan reciever on this forum, albeit this example is pretty extreme in comparison to Craymars. This level of assembly is no better, if not worse than what we have been seeing in the Chinese guns.

I AM NOT IMPRESSED.

[huklbery]

My 95 had no lube (like a Diana) and the end of the compression chamber had a bur that destroyed the original piston seal.  Assembly was fine, no deburing however but the lube on the joints & trigger was fine.

Mark

No replacement parts, the ball for the safty was 3/16 .187 plastic and the spring from a pen cut to length would replace the one out in your yard somewhere... 

[Nathan]

Seeing that makes me hesitant to buy a Hatsan

Nathan

[sawtoothscream]

well, sounds like you got a  $)((#.   mines shooting great but I wonder what it looks like inside.

[Paul68]

Might just be an expensive piece of scrap.

Just got through honing the beegeezus out of the cylinder, and the damage to the walls is still visible. Probing with a pick showed the gouges are deep enough to catch on after honing.

 One more pass, then it gets assembled and whatever happens, happens. Worst comes to worst, I'll have someone put it on a honing machined and have it refinished and trued.