Author Topic: Is the Chinese honeymoon drawing to a close? (Read 1009 times)

RedFeather · « **on:** January 19, 2012, 05:18:43 PM »

The fuss generated by Crosman's pricing of their MAV77 offering, even at $350, got me to thinking. Yes, the BAM40 went for about a hundred less, but would that gun retail for the same price today? Many air gunners have enjoyed a veritable feast of inexpensive Chinese offerings. Just take a look at the Chinese clones you might have and then price your collection as if they were the originals. (Your $150 R9 clone, alone, would set you back about $300 more.) China has just announced their worst economic quarter to date. Looks like their economy is slowing down. More and more Chinese are enjoying a higher standard of living and that translates into higher wages. Foreign companies are demanding better quality control. This new Crosman/B40 is an example of that. It will have to be built to some pretty high standards which set the original B40 and the B50 apart. There is also talk of the Chinese acquiring the production rights to the Webley Paradigm single stroke pneumatic - a gun that can go 12 ftlbs or more. Building something like that will take the best materials, machinery and skills. It all points to rising prices for Chinese guns. Could be the good times are winding down, along with the world economy.

Kailua · « **Reply #1 on:** January 19, 2012, 05:33:51 PM »

Must agree with what was said. Some time back it was said Harbor Freight prices would be going up on the same products and it has. That is where my concerns are. Initially overseas production prices are cheap and US factories close down. But then a short time later overseas prices go up and up and more money stays overseas and less in the US.
Not wanting to change the subject. But was curious and have not heard much out of the Shanghai Air Gun products.

grumpy · « **Reply #2 on:** January 19, 2012, 05:51:46 PM »

The Chinese would price themselves right out of the market if that happened. Not that I own a lot of Chinese branded guns, but I would not pay more then the going rates if they did.

Kailua · « **Reply #3 on:** January 19, 2012, 06:08:08 PM »

Might have said that about a Toyota back in the sixties or seventies.

gamo2hammerli · « **Reply #4 on:** January 19, 2012, 06:21:35 PM »

I believe the Chinese boom busted over a year ago.....they just didn`t let the news leak out. Some tourists/business people have been to Shanghai or Peking and the commercial/business districts are still building but vacancy is 80 or 90%!!!!

RedFeather · « **Reply #5 on:** January 19, 2012, 06:37:40 PM »

Grumpy, the prices have gone up, if indirectly. Companies like BAM have decided to pull out of the US retail sales market, preferring to make guns for US companies like Crosman which, in turn, will place their thumb on the scale. The upside is these companies tend to hold their manufacturers to a bit higher standards.

tardip · « **Reply #6 on:** January 19, 2012, 06:56:27 PM »

RedFeather you make a very good point. The US companies should hold the manufacturers to a higher standard. The question that remains to be answered is will they.

Kailua · « **Reply #7 on:** January 19, 2012, 07:11:56 PM »

US companies with higher standard question is will they or can they. A lot past management practices in the US was my way or the highway holding back the working people from improving production.

howie1a · « **Reply #8 on:** January 19, 2012, 07:25:10 PM »

I've got 3 Ruger rifles 2 Blackhawks and 1 Titan all ( B25's) I did have a B25 a while ago and the Ruger has a better bluing job that the b25 had maybe Ruger is making the China gun Co. to a higher quality since the Ruger name will be on the rifles. I don't know just wondering . Howie1a

althawk · « **Reply #9 on:** January 19, 2012, 08:06:38 PM »

Very insightful.

pappa · « **Reply #10 on:** January 19, 2012, 08:46:19 PM »

Quote from: howie1a on January 19, 2012, 07:25:10 PM

I've got 3 Ruger rifles 2 Blackhawks and 1 Titan all ( B25's) I did have a B25 a while ago and the Ruger has a better bluing job that the b25 had maybe Ruger is making the China gun Co. to a higher quality since the Ruger name will be on the rifles. I don't know just wondering . Howie1a

I have 3 Ruger Blackhawks (B25s) and 1 Air Magnum (B28) and they are superb air rifles and I have not had a serious problem with any of them. They are all extremely well made, easy to maintain, deadly accurate and very, very reliable. I originally bought my first one due to the Blackhawk name that I respect because I own 2 US made Blackhawk big bore revolvers that are extremely respectable. I very rarely see a problem mentioned on this, or any other forum with Ruger AG products. I have queried a couple of Ruger reps about this and they say that if a quality problem shows up in a Chinese Ruger named product, they get all over the maker in China and immediately get it squared away.

I only bring this up to illustrate the general direction of this category. If the US home office of a brand that is being made in China is watchful and maintains serious constraint on that manufacturer, then quality can be held high. No US quality control = no decent Chinese output quality.

By the way, I have owned an RWS34 and still own an RWS350 and can testify that IMO, the Ruger AR quality is as good as or better than the German's.

Random Plinker · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2012, 10:41:28 PM »

I think it is drawing to a new equilibrium, but not a close. Sure, a Chinese [fill in the blank] is/was/couldbe/canbe a bargain - provided you got one with a decent [fill in the blank]. But to get a good one, it seems the hobbyist relies on hobbyist re-sellers to check them out first, or luck. Well, that is highly skilled, under-priced labor, because it is part hobby and zero percent factory economies of scale. But what if the labor to improve quality goes all factory? Ah, then maybe what we have is the MAV77. If it retails for $350, AND has high quality, it will surely give the about to be very over-priced (but previously not overpriced, due to their previously exclusive quality) TX200 and HW97K a run for their money. Profit margins on the TX200 and HW97K drop in response...and maybe a new equilibrium.

TOM aka critter99 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2012, 01:01:00 AM »

I doubt AA or HW will adjust pricing because of a Chinese made US branded knock off. Their companies and Crosman aim at two different populations of customers.

The Chinese lower quality lower price is strictly the Chinese domain for now

HNT5 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2012, 01:26:03 PM »

So if the Crosman MAV77 sells for $350 (avg retail) and a B40/41 would be $250, how much of that extra $100 dollars is going into the workers pockets? Probably not much if any at all. Even if the Chinese are charging a higher price wholesale for the MAV77, that extra money goes to the factory owners and the Gov't. How much of that extra $100 in price is going into Crosman Corp. pockets? I doubt we'll see any major improvements in overall Chinese work conditions and/or pay because of ventures like this.

Nathan

Kailua · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:22:49 PM »

Was posted Crosman's site are usually higher priced and on top of that there should be a scope. With a scope would be good for the causal shooter with it all set to shoot. Which is Crosman's main market in the springers. As being good or better than a B-40 would just have to wait and see.

TOM aka critter99 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:18:42 PM »

ya got that right IF the changes are cost cuts it could be a dud. I hope they did not downgrade the trigger for a cheaper style it was fine.

Will have to wait and see I know I am not going to be the first

Rickey · « **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:23:06 PM »

I'm not either Tom. I had my fill of made in China and that was just over a $200 dollar gun. Not going down that road again any time soon.

gene_sc · « **Reply #17 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:36:48 PM »

And don't forget the Hatsan Line up that is now being introduced to the US market place. Just the Mod 95 has more design and quality built into it than most all $150.00 Chinese made airguns. Just that alone shows you that Even Hatsan can develop and sell competitively in the US.

I think Hatsan will push other company's to develop better designed air guns. Crosman and others will have to step up design and quality to meet our demands. From what I have seen so far in the 1000 fps range springer's Hatsan takes the cake on design and pricing compared to what is being offered to us now.

And yes RF i think you are right. Some of the dealers that specialize in them had better start looking at the pasture across the road a bit closer...

RedFeather · « **Reply #18 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:47:08 PM »

Gene, Hatsan is my favorite "new" air gun company. (New to us, that is.) Out of all the ones today, Hatsan seems to have actually done some innovating. Their SAS recoil dampener, alone, is a big step in the right direction. Plus I've heard nothing but good things about the Quatro trigger. Fresh designs. What we need.

Random Plinker · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2012, 07:38:10 PM »

Might have to check out that Hatsan Torpedo or Dominator...