Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10

[Bandit_46]

How many here has one,and are they Accurate right out of the Box.Please and Thanks?  My wife wants to buy me one for Christmas and I can get the .22 cal,,(which I prefer) so as long as it's a Good rifle,I'm gonna let Mrs.Claus do her thing he he.


Thanks in Advance.

[eddielee70]

very accurate better then .22 marauder, but not to .22 BSA.  elite is very loud and trigger is heavy, but crisp.  have not adjust my trigger yet.  very hard to get alignment for the ldc.  sometimes it clips, sometimes it doesn't. 1/2" thread is tight, but no dead stop for the ldc.

[Bandit_46]

Thanks.Is it pretty simple to remove the front sights as I'll have my Brake all ready.Thanks for the info too.

Troy

[darryl]

Do a search here. I have had accuracy problems right out of the box with my Elite 10. I found nicks in the outer barrel o-rings, which seemed to cause an accuracy variation that got a lot better after I replaced those o-rings (this after I sent the rifle to UMAREX; it was returned with a report of "no problems found". I really had to work this rifle to get it where it is. Given the feedback I got initially before I bought  mine, I'm still not satisfied with it's accuracy. I believe I got a bad one, so it's now a project rifle. I wanted it as a less expensive, and slightly lighter weight alternative to the Mrod.

To put it all in perspective for you, so far I seem to be the only one to have had a bad experience with the rifle. Thing is, I still like it! I know there's a good rifle in there somewhere. I just have to dig it out. I've got some fairly decent shot strings from playing around with it, and I've gotten pretty good at taking it down.

Oh, I have a Neil Clague thing on the end of my barrel, and I made two videos that lets one ehar the before/after difference in sound. PM me if you want to see them.

I originally wanted to buy the single-shot version, but they were not available at the time so I sprang for the extra and bought the Elite-10 instead. My mistake. But like I said, I like the rifle. Odd, eh?
darryl

[Rescue912]

I have a pneuma single shot and elite. Before I bought the elite I was a little worried since I followed darrl's saga to get his accurate. After scrubbing the bore with some goo gone both of mine were spot on. JSB 15.9's at 25 yards punch the same hole - not one ragged hole, the same hole.

They are loud-ish but not near the report of a .22 rimfire. Yesterday I anchored a fox squirrel at 73 yards so both on the bench and in the field they are my go-to guns...

[Stefan]

[darryl]

See? Told you I was the only one with a bad one! Earlier today I wrote to HatsanUSA asking for a new barrel, and about the availability of the LW barrel for this rifle. I hope to hear back. Maybe I need to polish my barrel again? Anyway, I still like the rifle and see no reason not to get it, Bandit. Mine must surely be an anomaly. I'm envious of the guys who have great accuracy with their rifle.

[Bandit_46]

Thanks Guys for the input,(Good and Bad).I am debating it right now as I really just want a .22 cal repeater and use my .25's for taking down the Bigger stuff. I'll take this all into account.

Thanks Guys,

Troy

[coax]

Well, Daryll is not alone in his Pnuema Elite saga.  I had been reading reports about this rifle for awhile, so popped for one based on all of the accuracy reports.  I figured that I couldn't beat the price and I wanted a pellet gun that could get out there with some power. 

I sent the first one back to PA.  It had strange velocity variations.  I'm on my second now.  It will shoot one hole groups at 30 yds. but then opens up at 50-55 yds.  The average group size between Kodiaks and 18.1 gr. JSBs is 1.5" and I'm not happy about that.  I'm going to change out the o-rings and check again for minute burrs. I'm not sure if the magazine is indexing correctly or not either.  I would grab one, as the only two bad one's I've heard of are Daryll's and mine.  I think most of the big names have more problems than this with their high end airguns from what is on the internet.

I like the rifle and am hoping to get the thing to group under an inch regularly

[Bandit_46]

Well after a lot of Consideration I've decided to Not,to get the Pneuma. I really wanted one,But at the same time I don't need a gun that may be just more Trouble than it's worth.
I have decided that if I'm going to buy another PCP,it's going to be something that cost's a lot more,and has a lot better reviews than this one.

Having a .22 cal repeater would be real Nice,but I'd rather save up for something like a AA S510 or Theoben Rapid MKll than to spend $400 and end up with a project instead of a gun.

Thanks for the Honest opinion's guys,,my wallet Thanks you!

[darryl]

Hey guys,
Bandit, I think most of the positive comments are weighted towards the single-shot version; my first choice. Hatsan actually sent me two free magazines to try out, in case the two I had were somehow not aligning properly, and so deforming some part of the pellet. But, no. That wasn't it. Last night I gave the barrel a good cleaning, and it wasn't really dirty. No improvement in accuracy. For a while it shot pretty good, then went bad. I may have a bad o-ring somewhere, but I can't find it. I said I really like this rifle. I do. It's breaking my heart though. Maybe a new barrel? Don't see how this rifle will group at 50 yards as it is now, unless it's a barn door.

Coax, I'm sorry to hear about your problems. Misery does not like company in this case. Mine also seemed to have varying velocities of late. I suspect the o-ring on the transfer port (have to remove the receiver to get to it). I haven't torn mine down to check that, but I will. Perhaps it's that variance causing the two different POI holes from the same fill, and I'm only talking about 20 shots here using JSB 18.1 grain Jumbo Heavies. I then switched to the slightly bigger pellet head of the H&N FTT (5.53mm H&N vs 5.52mm JSB). First few shots were one larger hole (and this pellet stacks when shot from my P-rod with the Marauder rifle barrel on it). The next few shots started really opening up and even started a second POI. This was 20 shots too. Something went wrong somewhere. TOmorrow I'll tear it down and check it out (again)

Bandit, if you can find one, I recommend an RWS Rapier (or it's FX variant; FX2000). It's no longer made, but it is known for it's accuracy. It's a two-shot pcp. check out this link:   http://varmintair.typepad.com/varmintairs_blog/2011/02/rws-rapier-30-shot-string-with-22-caliber-18-grain-jsb-jumbo-heavys.html

Note the date of the review: Feb of 2011. He was just going through his collection.

Coax, let me know if you fix your Pneuma.
darryl

[coax]

I'm waiting on a new chrony to come in and I'll check an entire string of 30 shots.  I have shot many groups that would prolly be good if they didn't end up over one inch in length and the center of group point of impact changing.  I'm also going to try another higher end scope when it gets here.  I took of the forward barrel band and it helped with the vertical string some.  I now have the rear off and the front on but haven't tested it yet.  I tried the H&N FTTs in 5.53 and would get three in a ragged hole and two close by but in a seperate group always. However, I bought this rifle to throw heavy pellets at 70yds. and beyond.  5.50 Barracudas usually shoot a little tighter than the 18.1 JSBs or the 25.4 JSB.  Until I can get a handle on the root problem, I won't know the rifle's potential though.

What size o-rings did you use for the barrel?  Please post when you take it apart to see if the transfer port o-ring is bad, on what you find.  This rifle belongs to me now after a couple of out-of-town business trips, so returning it is not an option anymore.  Did the single-loading not provide any improvement?  Randy at R&L Airgun Supply out here has the single shot and it is a fine shooter (the multi-shots seem to be the ones with a problem).

[darryl]

coax,
For the outer barrel o-rings I used #6 o-rings, readily available at Lowe's or HD. Be sure to lubricate them. This morning I polished the barrel crown, and that seemed to help for a minute. Then, as yours, back to two separate groups at close range. I'll give it another go. But now it's time to go tear the rifle down again and see what I can find. Also, I saw some erratic velocities on the chronograph. I'll report back later.

Yes, the multi-shot rifles seem to be problematic so far. Single-loading my rifle did not help a thing in the long run. What improvement I thought I saw was quickly swallowed up by by aggravatingly large group at close range. At least I got two free magazines from Hatsan when I thought that was the issue. Nice of them to offer.
 

[Stefan]

darryl, outer barrel o ring - if you mean the ones that goes inside the breech, those are -011. and the one inside barrel, is 5,5mmx1,5mm.

[darryl]

Stephan, I'm not sure how your -011 o-rings translate into a # system here in the states. But just eyeballing the old ones with the #6 o-rings they seem the same size.

coax, I tried recrowning my barrel again, this time a small polish. But again with the two separate groupings within 10 shots. Really weird. I took the rifle down again, and this time I saw that the o-ring on the brass transfer port is now split. It looked damaged before, but it did not leak, and I'd been forgetting to replace it. Now I have to. After I put it back together the rifle leaks air around the receiver. One thing, in putting the rifle back together, I noticed that the port hole in the barrel was out of alignment, but only partially blocking off the air from the rifle. I know now to be more careful when I remove the barrel (though I thought I was careful).

At one point I though maybe those two barrel bands might be interfering with accuracy. I only use one now, but it's not an improvement. I modified the one I took off; a mistake. Now I have to order a new one from "U-R-Next" (UMAREX).

Well, tomorrow's another day. It sure would be nice to figure out that two-group phenomenon. Anyone got any ideas on that?
darryl

[coax]

Getting my tank filled now (my two pumps need a rebuild) and hoping decent weather holds out (enough to check any progress anyway).  Still going to try with just front barrel band on, and if no progress, I'll try with no barrel bands. 

I've seen some posts from across the pond or up north about accuracy improvement without the barrel bands, but a flimsy feeling stock. If totally free floating the barrel shows good improvement, then I'll ream out the holes in the barrel band to free float it, and put both barrel bands back in to protect against jolts while giving the stock some structural integrity back.

So, now you need to replace the o-rings for the transfer port.  Put the size for replacement here when you find out, please.  We may yet figure this thing out, without having to buy a Lothar Walther barrel.  I hate to not get a viable performer out of this rifle and haven't given up yet. The two-pronged amateur approach might work after all.

[Stefan]

the 2 o rings on the barrel that goes into breech are 7.65x1.78 mm, or the -011 on the AS-568 O-ring Size Chart (ID 5/16" W 1/16").
transfer port o rings are metric, those are 5x1mm.
QC on hatsan isn't good enough, my friends barrel was awful, so I took it to gunsmith for professional re-crowning. He did re-crown mine too, with professional tools. I'd recommend that you try that also.

[darryl]

thanks Stephan. Soon a stop to get o-rings this morning. I had not considered putting more money in this rifle by going to a professional gunsmith. It would be a source of misery for me were it to come to that (not that I'm discounting it). We'll see. Thanks for sharing.

coax, who you callin an amateur? The correct term is rookie! j/k of course. This is (almost) fun. I'm hoping I've hit on something as simple as taking care in correctly lining up the barrel's port. Of course I'll report back here once I have tested the new TP o-ring.
darryl

[darryl]

well that o-ring for the TP will have to be ordered. But I bought one from the local hardware that had a smaller id (but thicker walls). It has about the same id as the TP does, and fits into the recessed area of the receiver, so I thought I'd give it a spin to see if it stopped the leak. It's a tiny #60. I'll let you know. Oh, I also found a set screw/lock screw for the forward hole on receiver to hold the barrel. This one is like the other set screw in the rear, rather than the PHIILLPS HEAD SCREW THAT CAME WITH THE RIFLE!! (did I get a returned rifle as "new"?)

[darryl]

OK. The little o-ring stopped the leak, and the groups tightened up to where they no longer look like two distinct groups, but one big sloppy group (after ten shots). I ran into a new problem that I'm not sure what to make of. Hatsan had sent me two new magazines to try out, and though they yielded no difference in accuracy they did seem to  fit. Now, with that thicker little o-ring in place two of the four magazines no longer easily fit. In fact they are now tight fits, and so unusable. I had never noticed any difference among the four magazines before. I guess I did not know what to think of the play; too loose or just normal? Now tow magazines fit just fine with only a bit of play and two are, as I said, too tight to use. Here's a picture of the two. The one with the recessed center (on the right) is the one (of the type) that no longer fit. Either the receiver WAS slightly bent (opening up the magazine area) or the receiver IS slightly bent upward, closing the magazine area. I suspect the latter, but the magazines that do still fit have plenty of play, and perform perfectly. Which magazines do your look like?

Edit: Might as well own up to being a part-time dumb-@ss. It seems I failed to notice the (inside) spacer for the main stock-retaining bolt had fallen out of the stock. Apparently tightening that bolt without the spacer puts stress on the receiver, and causes it to bow upward a bit, making the one magazine type too snug a fit to be useful. Putting that spacer back in the stock seems to have cured that problem. I wonder why the one type of magazine is wider than the other one? I also wonder how much play there should be, and how two different fits of magazines it affect poor accuracy? If at all.

Anyway, that little # 60 o-ring seems to be a non-issue so far. No leaks. I need to do a chrony test to see if the inconsistent FPS has been cured. Did I forget to mention that one too.

Te rifle sprays pellets when filled to 200 bar, even with plugging three holes in the air valve. It starts grouping when the pressure drops to 175 bar. I envy Pneuma owners who have no issues with their rifles straight out of the box. On the other hand they're missing out on all the fun.