Author Topic: Under Lever's - Crosman wants your input (Read 46982 times))

SAADE · « **Reply #100 on:** January 17, 2012, 11:34:51 PM »

Simple...take a good look (buy one and dismantle it) at the Air Arms Pro Sport hidden underlever.

Make it with a very good gas piston, polished and deburred parts, great finish, excellent trigger and .177 at 880fps with Cros Premier pellets. Oh, and make it with a 1/2 inch threaded (female) barrel/muzzle for quiet accessories. You don't have to play in the Gamo/Krapo underlever market "game". Give real airgun shooters who appreciate fine products what they want and we will beat a path to your door.

And if I didn't mention it already (hah) a great trigger. The Cros engineers should have a goal of putting the aftermarket trigger folks out of business, at least with Cros products. This is not rocket science, trigger geometry is well known and out there for 20+ years. Why can Weihrauch do it and you guys can't? (Rekord trigger)

Don't chase Gamo and the Chinese guns, that "stuff' is out there for those who want to dismantle a new gun and re-build it for twice what they paid for it. Build a great, $400 gas spring gun as noted above and it will sell.

I would buy one of these guns tomorrow if you made it right, so would many others.

bobster · « **Reply #101 on:** January 17, 2012, 11:35:35 PM »

Here are pics of the Air Arms, Bam B40, and Crosman guns. Isn't there a law against taking a Chinese copy, doubling the price, and reselling it? Or what about a law for copying the Air Arms gun? Can Crosman get away with this because AA is a British company and therefore not protected under US law?

Scotchmo · « **Reply #102 on:** January 17, 2012, 11:36:51 PM »

I like the TX200 and therefore the B40 and MAV 77. But I have become a gas spring convert and probably would not own any of them at this point in time. The TX200, B40, and MAV 77 cannot easily accept a gas spring. After looking at pictures of the trigger of the Hatsan 200s, I suspect it could accept a gas spring. And it has a lot of the other features of the TX200 that I like. Until I see an exploded schematic, I won't know for sure. I think Crosman should have gone for a gas spring equipped 200s to sell as there underlever. Crosman has been pushing gas springs big time in there spring guns. Are they changing course?

PS - I like the Prosport even more than the TX200, but it cannot accept a gas spring either.

SAADE · « **Reply #103 on:** January 17, 2012, 11:49:15 PM »

That's what engineering depts. are for, figure out how to do it. The Pro Sport is the goal, let engineering do their homework and make it happen. We have gone so far in spending $200 in mods after buying $300 guns that the makers don't even care any longer. They have dumbed us into lawyer-land with krapo triggers and bent barrels and shrouds that don't fit, etc, etc, etc.
You could fill ten Forum Servers with Benjamin Trail and Marauder complaints and mods and quality issues. Why?
Would you buy a $500 Weatherby .308 and put another $500 in it? Really? That's crazy. Higher end airguns should be no diffrerent.

Of course, Air Arms patents should not be infringed upon, but a hidden underlever is not a patent, it's a design goal.

althawk · « **Reply #104 on:** January 17, 2012, 11:50:35 PM »

Bobster, ty for the photos... yeah that really looks like the Bam b40.
Hopefully someone at crosman fixes that 530 price tag to a 350.

bart the fart · « **Reply #105 on:** January 17, 2012, 11:57:14 PM »

where is this "$530" price tag coming from. I've seen this in a couple posts and it seems WAAAAAAYYYY off base. I could be wrong (LOL) and often am. But I looked at Crosman's site and there was no price. If its 530 crosman will have a flop, but at 200-300 it will be a huge hit............so to the peole throughing "$530" around...where did you hear or get this figure? cheers,Bart

TOM aka critter99 · « **Reply #106 on:** January 17, 2012, 11:57:42 PM »

The BAM B40 was only $269.00 when it was a new model and sold as low as $230.....its not worth $300 even. They were typical Chinese rifles hit and miss. IF you got a good one they were nice. The bad ones well they became a loss.

I had one in .22 that was a good one once the spring had fitted guides made it shot great. Wish I never sold and I sold it way to cheap.

For them to even suggest a MSRP of $530 when the real deal is $569 is insulting...

TOM aka critter99 · « **Reply #107 on:** January 17, 2012, 11:59:44 PM »

The Benjamin MAV 77 Underlever has an MSRP of $530.00 and will be available in spring.

http://www.crosman.com/croswords/?p=2287

Scotchmo · « **Reply #108 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:00:13 AM »

SAADE -
Sure they could figure out how to do it. They could even come up with a new design incorporating all of the features that were asked for. It takes an investment of time, money and some risk. But why do any engineering when they can buy a proven, existing design, from a low cost Chinese or Turkish supplier. Nothing wrong with that, unless they really expect to get $500 for it.

bart the fart · « **Reply #109 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:00:34 AM »

I stand corrected! 530!? good luck Crosman...I hope you didn't buy to many

TOM aka critter99 · « **Reply #110 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:08:28 AM »

Paul68 · « **Reply #111 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:15:27 AM »

Wow. After reading this thread, I seriously doubt I will buy a Crosman product, regardless of where it's made. This is, to put it simply, pathetic. I'm already looking at choosing a gun that "I" want for my own selfish reasons, and the Trails just went from the top of the list to off the list. I'd rather pay more and not deal with the quality and company integrity issues I have been reading about and seeing in the cheap Storm I was given.

bradyman1 · « **Reply #112 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:20:39 AM »

Quote from: Paul68 on January 18, 2012, 12:15:27 AM

Wow. After reading this thread, I seriously doubt I will buy a Crosman product, regardless of where it's made. This is, to put it simply, pathetic. I'm already looking at choosing a gun that "I" want for my own selfish reasons, and the Trails just went from the top of the list to off the list. I'd rather pay more and not deal with the quality and company integrity issues I have been reading about and seeing in the cheap Storm I was given.

Crosman still makes a great product and has the best customer service in the industry. While there is much speculation about this being an overpriced chinese clone we have yet to see the product to verify this. Did the Bam b40 have a dual stage trigger? I don't know anything about it.

RedFeather · « **Reply #113 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:26:19 AM »

Mr. Archer posted that he handled one at the Shot Show and pronounced it to be a B40. All that aside, I wouldn't not buy Crosman. They have responded pretty well to other suggestions such as bringing back the 1322, doing their own nitro piston, etc. I didn't mean to slam Crosman, per se. Just that it's a bit disappointing to see this particular gun being touted as new and so forth. Sort of like back in the 80's when Detroit would unveil next year's exciting new model only to be shown the same stodgy sedan they were peddling the last three years with a bit of new trim (or less). I would have been happier if Crosman had taken another stab at an improved Sterling under-lever. Funky looking but at least different.

TOM aka critter99 · « **Reply #114 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:27:39 AM »

Yes it was TX200 clone in almost every detail...2 stage trigger quite nice too

Could even fit into a TX 200 stock with a slight mod to the stock

worth the $269-$230 THEY SOLD FOR

My 22 B40 thats gone

with 14.3 CP

I had one in .22 that was a good one once the spring had fitted guides made it shot great. Wish I never sold and I sold it way to cheap.

Paul68 · « **Reply #115 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:31:16 AM »

Quote from: bradyman1 on January 18, 2012, 12:20:39 AM

Quote from: Paul68 on January 18, 2012, 12:15:27 AM
Wow. After reading this thread, I seriously doubt I will buy a Crosman product, regardless of where it's made. This is, to put it simply, pathetic. I'm already looking at choosing a gun that "I" want for my own selfish reasons, and the Trails just went from the top of the list to off the list. I'd rather pay more and not deal with the quality and company integrity issues I have been reading about and seeing in the cheap Storm I was given.

Crosman still makes a great product

Perhaps, but that's when you dont have to send it back, fix it, and get lucky enough to get a "good" one apparently. Even their "high end" products seems to have more issues than most. To me, this is fairly shady practice to simply rebadge a much cheaper chinese import and charge double although yes, I'm aware it's old hat for some manufacturers.

bobster · « **Reply #116 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:45:46 AM »

I'm not interested in slamming Crosman either, but I just don't like this shady stuff at all. It really irks me. Why ask for input and make a show of acting like you are being genuine and then do this? It's not right in my book.

I had my first Crosman gun 27 years ago. It was darn well made. That built a lot of loyalty for me. Then last year I bought a nitro venom and after looking into it many had the same problems that I did. The standard now seems to be "buy it and hope you get one that works". Sure they will replace it if it doesn't work but is it really too much to ask for it to work as it's supposed to? Why do such a large number have to be sent back? The quality control is very poor now IMO. Also just a few weeks ago a bought a 1377 that was shoddy after about 20 shots or so. I replaced that one and the one I have now shoots really accurate ONLY when it's over-oiled for some reason. After a few shots it's starts getting wild again. Then I oil it and it is fine. I wonder if the oil is compensating for poor seals? I guess I will have to return that one too. It's frustrating.

I guess it's really two separate issues: one of quality control and the other being of trust. The quality control issue doesn't get an emotional response from me but deceiving people does. I just don't like it. They created so much loyalty for me based on my experience in my youth. But now I'm going to make a conscious effort to buy other products.

yoshi800 · « **Reply #117 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:46:42 AM »

Whoa $530 for a TX200 knockoff? Count me out. I'm waiting for a good price on a RWS48 though.

pappa · « **Reply #118 on:** January 18, 2012, 01:40:36 AM »

I would like to see a copy of the RWS460 with a nitro piston, a weaver rail and made in the USA. I would gladly pay extra if it were made in the USA!

ivanpros · « **Reply #119 on:** January 18, 2012, 02:35:49 AM »

Improved NPSS with good quality (see flyers comments). This rifle I think has almost everything I would want.

Shrouded barrel (Quiet) work on improving the barrel
Nitro Piston
underleever
Figure out a way to use bipod that does not affect the groupings

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Under Lever's - Crosman wants your input

Author Topic: Under Lever's - Crosman wants your input (Read 46982 times))

ivanpros